Dumb Question? -Could get scientific.

Alright so, i don't care how dumb this question sounds, i am very curious and have searched around a bit to find nothing.
My question is, If beneficial bacteria feeds on Ammonia's, Nitrites, and Nitrates, then why doesnt water conditioner wipe out your beneficial bacteria?

To support my question, If you remove food from a living thing, after a period of time it will die. We all know how quickly beneficial bacteria can be disturbed,
and ammonia spikes arise etc. But why not when we dose our tank with water conditioner? It is supposed to remove all of that from the tank for a period of time.
For that period of time wouldn't this mess with our beneficial bacteria? The answer that that question would be no, we don't ever see ammonia spikes after dosing our tanks.

Why? You successfully starved your beneficial bacteria for a period of time because of the lack of food for them (Ie. Nitrates) why don't we see spikes?



may sound stupid but im curious :/

fish continually produce new waste, so they wont be going without "food" for very long.

that's my best guess.

Where is RD when you need him?

My guess would be similar to Zerc's. Your not putting in conditioner 24/7 and constantly depriving the bacteria of food. The only reason most of you use the conditioners (I do not), is because you have been conditioned into thinking that it removes chlorine and metals in your new water, so that these things do not hurt your fish. This chlorine may also be harmful to your bacteria.

So to answer your question. I dont think that the small 30-40% water changes, whether you use Prime or nothing at all, will be enough to even make the bacteria flinch.

yeah its just not enough change and like h said they make alot of waste everyday

madness wrote:Where is RD when you need him?

My guess would be similar to Zerc's. Your not putting in conditioner 24/7 and constantly depriving the bacteria of food. The only reason most of you use the conditioners (I do not), is because you have been conditioned into thinking that it removes chlorine and metals in your new water, so that these things do not hurt your fish. This chlorine may also be harmful to your bacteria.

So to answer your question. I dont think that the small 30-40% water changes, whether you use Prime or nothing at all, will be enough to even make the bacteria flinch.

I agree that you arent using conditioner 24/7, and i don't really need to use conditioner at all, im running off of a well so my water has no chlorine's or anything,
what i usually do is remove 60 gallons from the tank (60 gallons left roughly) i dose the water left in the tank with conditioner to deplete the nitrates and such.
then i fill my tank with my tap water. and i have had GREAT success with this because i am on a well.


i dunno i guess its a dumb question but it still boggles my mind a tad bit. it makes sense to me now but still. lol

If your on a well, then why even use any conditioners? Its completely unnecessary. Nitrates in your aquarium is not a bad thing. It means everything is working. If you want to remove excess nitrates but some plants in it or do what I do, I cut off stems of my Philodendron and I let them hang into the tanks. The plant grows, feeds off of the nitrates which helps remove them from the tank.

I would NEVER use chemicals or meds unless absolutely necessary. You being on a well makes it perfect for water changes.

madness wrote:If your on a well, then why even use any conditioners? Its completely unnecessary. Nitrates in your aquarium is not a bad thing. It means everything is working. If you want to remove excess nitrates but some plants in it or do what I do, I cut off stems of my Philodendron and I let them hang into the tanks. The plant grows, feeds off of the nitrates which helps remove them from the tank.

I would NEVER use chemicals or meds unless absolutely necessary. You being on a well makes it perfect for water changes.

thats just the thing, i had some java fern and amazon swords in the tank, but with 24 cichlids swimming around the plants were looking rather haggard.
i have since moved them to the maternity tank and added CO2 to the mix. i got some good growth. the plants look like they are finally reaching out instead of being closed and clumped up looking.

the java didnt make it, it never grew, never stuck to driftwood, i tried many many things but finally gave up and chucked it.

as for the conditioners, i have metals in my water, its very alkaline. The fish like harder water but my water is VERY hard.
when i use water conditioner or prime i always use half dose. because im with you, there really isnt a need.

sometimes when im out of town or something for a few days straight i have my mom add a half cap (5mg - 50 gallons) to my tank just to keep things down.
i am anal when it comes to tank cleanliness... water changes daily. i cant stand dirty water. i am a painter and when im breathing in dirty air because of a filter that needs replaced,
it really irks me, and bothers me, adds stress to my day etc. so i can only imagine what its like for the fish in poor conditions.

Then use a conditioner that just removes the metals. Rid metals by Kordon works well. As for softening the water, just put a bag of peat into your filter. It will naturally soften the water.

From Seachem,

Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity.

I use Prime and only to neutralize chlorine. It doesn't actually remove ammonia/nitrate but chemically alters them and, according to seachem, actually makes it easier for the bacteria to process. I don't know what brand you're using but it's likely a similar scenario. Check the brand website.


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I dont know any water conditioner that removes all nitrite/ammonia/nitrate..... that would be some amazing water conditioner though!

For all of you out there that only have chlorine as a problem use Vitamin C. If you add roughly 10mg per gallon it will nuetralize chlorine. If you have chloramines then sodium ascrobate with I believe 15mg per gallon. I know the vitamin C works for sure but if anybody is intrested I could look the facts on sodium ascrobate again.

I know a tropheus breeder that has a big rubbermaid garbage tub that he just lets water from his tap sit in for a couple days before putting it in his tank... chlorine evaporates very quickly, so if you want to try that.

I believe Prime converts Ammonia to Ammonium, which is non-toxic to the fish.

sandnuka wrote:I dont know any water conditioner that removes all nitrite/ammonia/nitrate..... that would be some amazing water conditioner though!

i use prime and water conditioner (top fin?)

ive never had nitrites, literally never.
my tank quickly went from ammonia's to nitrates.
every test i have ever done has shown 0ppm nitrites.

however, ive always had a little ammonia's here and there, and absurd nitrates, like 80-100.
ive never been able to get it lower than 20-40 ppm. ive done 60% water changes for a week straight every day.
also dosed the tank with prime. still havent seen lower then 20ppm.

AE86-Danny wrote:

sandnuka wrote:I dont know any water conditioner that removes all nitrite/ammonia/nitrate..... that would be some amazing water conditioner though!

i use prime and water conditioner (top fin?)

ive never had nitrites, literally never.
my tank quickly went from ammonia's to nitrates.
every test i have ever done has shown 0ppm nitrites.

however, ive always had a little ammonia's here and there, and absurd nitrates, like 80-100.
ive never been able to get it lower than 20-40 ppm. ive done 60% water changes for a week straight every day.
also dosed the tank with prime. still havent seen lower then 20ppm.

I said earlier, plants. Not the kind that go in the tank. The kind you have in your living room. I have an ivy type plant that grows across the top of my tanks, the roots are in the tank water.

you can do the ivy thing.... or you can do aquaponics and grow basil, beens, tomatoes, etc.

There you go. Those hanging tomato plants. Hmmmmmmmm you may have something.............

madness wrote:There you go. Those hanging tomato plants. Hmmmmmmmm you may have something.............

how exactly does this "Aquaponics" thing work out?

anywhere i can go to read about it? i wanna grow some type of ivy or viney plant across the top of my water.

You grow them outside of the tank, the roots are the only thing in the water

madness wrote:You grow them outside of the tank, the roots are the only thing in the water

ahh so i have to build some sort of device to hold the pot ontop of the tank and let the roots grow down into the water.

i see i see.

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this is my angel fish system where they are laying eggs literally right now and the picture was taken only a minute ago. The basil started growing with too little light and do to that has always been really lanky but the tomatoes are sprouts are doing great

if you really wanted to you could make it look alot better but this was all done for $70 and that is including everything you see

Your water is so brown thats nuts lol.

get some black out curtains

It is crystal clear but the cardboard I taped to the sides makes it look brown lol

improvised insulation to help so the heater doesnt have to work as much

Fish Addict wrote:improvised insulation to help so the heater doesnt have to work as much

It makes sense now, that is actually a really clever idea.
also doubles as black out curtains so your tank doesnt get plagued with algae.

good stuff!

and the other reason is so the fish feel more comfrotable because they only see out one side of the tank instead of seeing the whole room and out my window. They were always shy and hiding when I first got them but after I added the cardboard they became really active and started laying eggs right away.

I use frogbit and other floating plants to suck nutrients out of the water. I just throw out a few hand-fulls of the stuff when it covers too much of the surface. Granted, I don't keep any fish big enough to eat said floating plants.