Aulonocara Babies~ Sunshine / Orange Shoulder

I had a male Orange shoulder, mate with a Sunshine and she is now holding and not eating.

my Yellow electric is about to spit her babies here soon when she spits ill put the Sunshine peacock into the Maternity tank.


stay tuned for Yellow electric fry and Sunshine/Orange shoulder aulonocaras!

I know it's tough to do, especially when you are new to the breeding and it's so exciting, but the best thing to do with fish that have crossbred is to let them spit the fry in the tank and hope there are no survivors. I speak from experience and have learned this the hard way.

Betty wrote:I know it's tough to do, especially when you are new to the breeding and it's so exciting, but the best thing to do with fish that have crossbred is to let them spit the fry in the tank and hope there are no survivors. I speak from experience and have learned this the hard way.

naa i wanna see what they look like. i imagine they would look really cool being that they are atleast same species, and close in color.
if there are some really cool colored males im gonna keep em for myself.

if not they can be someones fish food or something.

A hybrid fan.... I honestly dont have any problem with hybrids.... I personally havent owned one, thought about getting a flowerhorn a few times, but never made the leap...... anyway, good luck with the fish....

for the sake of the hobby, dont sell them though.... then further down the line people will be selling sunshines with unclean genes and nothing would make me crazier than finding out my fish wasnt a pure bread.

sandnuka wrote:A hybrid fan.... I honestly dont have any problem with hybrids.... I personally havent owned one, thought about getting a flowerhorn a few times, but never made the leap...... anyway, good luck with the fish....

for the sake of the hobby, dont sell them though.... then further down the line people will be selling sunshines with unclean genes and nothing would make me crazier than finding out my fish wasnt a pure bread.

well im not exactly a "Fan" of hybrids. i wouldn't go that far with it.
but i do like the idea of playing around with 2 peacock mixs.

Think about the wild. There are all kinds of different peacocks in the same area. mating and mixing and matching.
how do you think we got the different types today?

I won't say that i wont sell any.. if some look awesome ill post em up, but i will for sure let the buyer know without a doubt
that the fish are peacock mix. Orange/Sunshine.

I really just want a few extra colorful males out of it

sandnuka wrote:
for the sake of the hobby, dont sell them though.... then further down the line people will be selling sunshines with unclean genes and nothing would make me crazier than finding out my fish wasnt a pure bread.

This is what happened to me. I have paid good money on a few occasions for fish (locally) that I expected to be the species I was told they were, only to find out they were hybrids!! And because I can't pass them on to anyone else and won't euthanize them, I'm stuck with them -- and they live for many years! Even if you tell the person you sell or give them to that they are hybrid, that person could still pass them on to others and it just goes from there. The Aulonocara all look so similar when they are immature and the females are difficult to tell apart even when full size adults. Especially for beginners.

I'm not saying that it's wrong to grow a few out and see how they turn out -- I've done this myself -- but I hope you don't decide to sell them.

In the wild they do not mix and match the way they would in an aquarium.

Betty wrote:

sandnuka wrote:
for the sake of the hobby, dont sell them though.... then further down the line people will be selling sunshines with unclean genes and nothing would make me crazier than finding out my fish wasnt a pure bread.

This is what happened to me. I have paid good money on a few occasions for fish (locally) that I expected to be the species I was told they were, only to find out they were hybrids!! And because I can't pass them on to anyone else and won't euthanize them, I'm stuck with them -- and they live for many years! Even if you tell the person you sell or give them to that they are hybrid, that person could still pass them on to others and it just goes from there. The Aulonocara all look so similar when they are immature and the females are difficult to tell apart even when full size adults. Especially for beginners.

I'm not saying that it's wrong to grow a few out and see how they turn out -- I've done this myself -- but I hope you don't decide to sell them.

In the wild they do not mix and match the way they would in an aquarium.

this is the exact same thing I preach when it comes to hybridizing CA. JUST DONT DO IT. (dont sell them or give them away) You may be responsible and acknowledge that they are a mix, but someone else more than likely will not, and before you know it. Its all screwed up.

This here is some of the exact main reasons why I dont support our LFS and buy their fish. Not because the store owner is selling the hybrids, but that the store owner is selling a hybrid that he/she has know idea that they are a hybrid because so many out there are doing this.

I do like APFP because Kevin only takes in fish from reputable breeders.

Well you guys can hate hybrids, and i agree they shouldnt be in the hobby at all.

but i am going to grow out the babies for as long as it takes to see what they look like.

i cant justify just "killing them off" or "Letting her spit into the tank and hoping they die"
thats just ridiculous.


I just think about what is happening in the wild. you got all sorts of types of peacocks mating.


in my eyes, Hybrid fish are something like Aulonocara mating with a Labidochromis.
that is complete Hybrid.


but Aulonocara / Aulonocara isnt a hybrid. its just not a pure fish. its still 100% aulonocara.
so the word hybrid cannot be used.

That is like taking a German and an American and saying they are "hybrids"
they are still gonna be white.

you guys sound like hitler of the fish world!


if they look good im keeping them!
if they look bad they will end up fish food.

Thank you guys for the comments and concerns tho it is appreciated.

Aulonocara is the genus. Mixing two different species, even of the same genus, is cross breeding and producing hybrids.

Americans and Germans are the same species (Homo sapiens) so it's not comparable.

Am I wrong?

Betty wrote:Aulonocara is the genus. Mixing two different species, even of the same genus, is cross breeding and producing hybrids.

Americans and Germans are the same species (Homo sapiens) so it's not comparable.

Am I wrong?

You are correct.

lol whatever.

im keeping them. so there.
if they are beautiful i will only brag
if they are ugly well.. youll never hear about em again ahah

Hey, some mutts are the best little pets in the world!

fishloverRon wrote:Hey, some mutts are the best little pets in the world!

My thought exactly!

I know a few people that love creating hybrids, they call me any other purists hippys.... You will get 90% of hobbyist that disagree with you, and wont be excited about the new sub species youve created, but its your tank, your hobby, do what you will. :p

Create your hybrids and enjoy them. Just keep them away from spreading. If you want the hybrid, keep it. As soon as you sell it or give it away, it changes.

10 years from now I want to buy an Aul. Jacobfreibergi. What? What do you mean they dont exist? Everyone is crossbreeding? Well I want a true, pure Jacob. Great, they dont exist anymore in the hobby.

Have fun and enjoy. And having her spit them out in the tank, is no big freakin deal. Seriously?

madness wrote:Create your hybrids and enjoy them. Just keep them away from spreading. If you want the hybrid, keep it. As soon as you sell it or give it away, it changes.

10 years from now I want to buy an Aul. Jacobfreibergi. What? What do you mean they dont exist? Everyone is crossbreeding? Well I want a true, pure Jacob. Great, they dont exist anymore in the hobby.

Have fun and enjoy. And having her spit them out in the tank, is no big freakin deal. Seriously?

Its not a big deal to let her spit them in the tank no, but to HOPE they die. thats crazy talk.
or to simply kill off a whole batch before seeing what they look like. How stupid is that?
You realize in the wild what is taking place right? how do you think we have so many different species today?
its simple. They mix and match in the wild, just like what has taken place in my tank.
Nature has happened, why would i destroy it?


like i said before, its not like they are different types of fish, they are in the same family, both aulonocara's
what is the worst that can happen? they come out with some duller colors? i have 2 sub dominates in my tank that dont show colors anyways.
and i have 3 females swimming around with no colors aswell.

i agree that i shouldn't create a bunch of hybrids and sell them off as "pure" breeds. thats kinda messed up.
but what you guys are suggesting is far worse. just because you guys dont agree with hybrids.


What i don't understand is why would you kill off a batch and not even see what they look like.
why not grow them out for a month or 2 just to see the potential?

sandnuka wrote:I know a few people that love creating hybrids, they call me any other purists hippys.... You will get 90% of hobbyist that disagree with you, and wont be excited about the new sub species youve created, but its your tank, your hobby, do what you will. :p

Indeed.
If 90% of the hobby is against hybrids, then 90% of the hobby should be against just about all of the fish in todays society.

Any of you nay-sayers ever heard of the "fancy" guppy? Great Danes or Chihuahuas? Tennessee Walkers or Quarterhorses?

hybrids do not breed true.

if a horse was sold as a quarterhorse but it was later discovered to be 1/8 draft horse, what do you think the buyer would have to say about that?

the same goes with any of the above mentioned species.
having a hybrid isnt a problem, its the selling it, and then the next person selling it as a true breed of a species it resembles but is in fact not.
or even worse, that buyer breeding said hybrid and selling the offspring as pure bloods. You can see where that is headed.

nobody really cares if you have hybrids or not, we just dont want the pure bloods to be wiped out by irresponsible breeding.

if someone wants to create a new strain of fish, by all means do so. just like breeders do with "fancy" guppies. they find a trait they like, and breed for it until their stock breeds true, then they can sell it as a specific "strain".

Zerc wrote:nobody really cares if you have hybrids or not, we just dont want the pure bloods to be wiped out by irresponsible breeding.

I agree, but the irresponsibility would be in the ''selling'', not necessarily in the breeding...don't you think? And of course the integrity of the seller is always an issue to consider. Whether horse trading, dog trading, plum tree trading, or fish trading.

So, no argument from me.

Danny, I know you are going to seel them as possible mutts...right?

fishloverRon wrote:Any of you nay-sayers ever heard of the "fancy" guppy? Great Danes or Chihuahuas? Tennessee Walkers or Quarterhorses?

We dont want the fish hobby to go where horse / dog / cat hobbies are irreversibly stuck now.

want to buy a dog? fine, it will cost you $10 for a puppy on CL.

want to buy a genuine pure bred lab? have fun. Find an AKC breeder with papers and be prepared to pay anywhere from $300 to $1500+

horses cost way more.

Do you want to have to pay $300+ for a genuine run of the mill jack dempsey? Id rather not.

I don't think the problem is with danny selling them as mutts, it is the person who buys them from him selling or breeding and selling the offspring as pures.

There is a saying i think is appropriate.

If you have a barrel of crap and add a teaspoon of expensive wine, you have a barrel of crap.

if you have a barrel of expensive wine and add a teaspoon of crap, you have a barrel of crap.


it doesnt take much to ruin a lot.

Zerc wrote:I don't think the problem is with danny selling them as mutts, it is the person who buys them from him selling or breeding and selling the offspring as pures.

i agree with this 100%

You are right in every way.
and my intention with these babies isnt to sell them off to just anyone as mutts.
i may give them to a few deserving friends and explain to them, the situation.

for now ill only be selling yellow electric pures, as that is what i have.

i mean if you look at my first post, i never had intentions in selling the aulonocara's infact i wanted to keep ALL of them for myself.
aulonocara's are my absolute favorite cichlid. from the colors to the personality.

so im not really sure why everyone is jumping down my throat for having them. again because selling was my last intention.


i only agree'd to selling the yellow electrics that were just born, and again they are pure. 100% yellow electric. no tricks or trades

oh no one minds you having hybrids, we are just scared of pollution of species because it happens more often than it should. there is no way to track it easily with fish, unlike the other species mentioned.

for example, my convict is part alligator.

I suggested you let her spit in the tank because you had said you were going to put the holding peacock into the maternity tank. She can be holding a huge number of fry and you will not be able to keep them all. You aren't going to see any potential in a month or two of growth with Aulonocara. It takes much longer and with the males, the conditions for displaying true colors have to be there as well. I find it much easier to let the fry be predated on in the tank very early on than to grow them out for weeks or months and then destroy them. It might be crazy and stupid, but it's my opinion.

It's good that you would only give them to people you trust. I hope they turn out nice for you. One particular hybrid that I spent a lot of money on thinking that it was a pure Red Empress is a beautiful fish!

Betty wrote:I suggested you let her spit in the tank because you had said you were going to put the holding peacock into the maternity tank. She can be holding a huge number of fry and you will not be able to keep them all. You aren't going to see any potential in a month or two of growth with Aulonocara. It takes much longer and with the males, the conditions for displaying true colors have to be there as well. I find it much easier to let the fry be predated on in the tank very early on than to grow them out for weeks or months and then destroy them. It might be crazy and stupid, but it's my opinion.

It's good that you would only give them to people you trust. I hope they turn out nice for you. One particular hybrid that I spent a lot of money on thinking that it was a pure Red Empress is a beautiful fish!

well i was hoping to put the aulonocara in the materinty tank long enough to spit, then i would pluck her out and stick her back in the main tank.
instead i got a breeder net. i honestly agree with you guys in 1 area only, and that is selling them as pures. they simply are not pures.
or selling them in general. the peacocks "will not get sold" they will either be given away for free to people whom i trust. or i will keep them.

im leaning more and more towards keeping them.


looking at my male. hes basically show quality. bright vibrant orange body, but at certain angles you can see a blue shimmer almost "barred" like.
his face is "electric blue" looking. hes beautiful.

looking at the female. shes got an obvious purple coloring to her face. her body shows signs of yellow and green.


i dunno, both are good looking fish, and i am basically deciding to keep all of them, grow them out, and see what i got.

Wow, I missed a lot. Zerc you completely stole my thunder.

Its not Danny we are worried about, it is the others that forget to express that they are hybrid, or the LFS that forgets to reveal the true type of fish.

As for the dog and horse comment. Come on seriously? Thats answer is obvious. And again, Zerc hit the nail on the head. I do not want to have to paper my true bloods and have this ridiculous paper follow the lineage. Spending $300 for a pure bred is stupid, and it will force hobbyists to by the mutts or non-papered species, and before you know it all of them look alike.

I dont want that, and true hobbyist dont want that either.

i have to admit though, an electric blue arowana would be pretty sweet.

True, but you know what your getting, they cant be just bought by your average Joe, and bred uncontrollably. If they were readily available they would be cheaper, and the pure colors of these Arrowannas would also be a complete mess. These fish are bred to achieve these colors and those that can buy them, pay enormous amounts to acquire them. I heard that a 3' Asian red Aro went for $25,000. Thats insane.

madness wrote:True, but you know what your getting, they cant be just bought by your average Joe, and bred uncontrollably. If they were readily available they would be cheaper, and the pure colors of these Arrowannas would also be a complete mess. These fish are bred to achieve these colors and those that can buy them, pay enormous amounts to acquire them. I heard that a 3' Asian red Aro went for $25,000. Thats insane.

There are so many different hybrid species out there its unreal.


people specifically breed hybrids just to discover unique species.
all electric blues, 99% of albino's are specifically bred to be that way.
atleast 50-60% of the species today were hybrid breeds that have been re-breed and sold as "pure"

its just how things boil down.
there really is no argument.

AE86-Danny wrote:

madness wrote:True, but you know what your getting, they cant be just bought by your average Joe, and bred uncontrollably. If they were readily available they would be cheaper, and the pure colors of these Arrowannas would also be a complete mess. These fish are bred to achieve these colors and those that can buy them, pay enormous amounts to acquire them. I heard that a 3' Asian red Aro went for $25,000. Thats insane.

There are so many different hybrid species out there its unreal.


people specifically breed hybrids just to discover unique species.
all electric blues, 99% of albino's are specifically bred to be that way.
atleast 50-60% of the species today were hybrid breeds that have been re-breed and sold as "pure"

its just how things boil down.
there really is no argument.

They are rebred until they breed true and are sold as their own species. This takes a lot of time and effort. Our problem is when they are sold as a pure of one of the parent species. No one here is arguing against the benefits of breeding fish specifically to create a new species, the difference is the people who do that are doing something that you seem to be against. The large majority of fish that do not meet the criteria they are going for? They are culled immediately.

The fact that there are so many different varieties of Aulonacara is not a reflection of them crossing all the time. It is a reflection of them not crossing all the time.

In Lake Malawi what you have is many different areas of the lake that are piles of rocks with sand between. Fish tend to stay in a very small area (Mbuna). Territories are small.

If all the Aulonacara crossed all the time you would eventually have one probably bland fish. It is the selection and isolation that creates the unique fish.

Some fish are show fish and are bred and cross bred. Discus, guppies etc. you end up with fish that look nothing like the wild types. Most responsible African cichlid hobbyists are trying to keep fish as close to wild as possible.

As Lake Malawi is overfished your 2 breeds of Aulonacara may be the last examples of that fish left. But not if they cross, then you just have Aulonacara mixed. No value and a detriment to the hobby.

Leaving them all in the tank actually mimics nature as well. The only reason to take them to a grow out tank is to sell them. Left in tank a few usually make it. If your tank mates are appropriate and there is enough cover many will survive. It is actually nice for a display tank to have a few babies in there.

Tr182md wrote:The fact that there are so many different varieties of Aulonacara is not a reflection of them crossing all the time. It is a reflection of them not crossing all the time.

In Lake Malawi what you have is many different areas of the lake that are piles of rocks with sand between. Fish tend to stay in a very small area (Mbuna). Territories are small.

If all the Aulonacara crossed all the time you would eventually have one probably bland fish. It is the selection and isolation that creates the unique fish.

Some fish are show fish and are bred and cross bred. Discus, guppies etc. you end up with fish that look nothing like the wild types. Most responsible African cichlid hobbyists are trying to keep fish as close to wild as possible.

As Lake Malawi is overfished your 2 breeds of Aulonacara may be the last examples of that fish left. But not if they cross, then you just have Aulonacara mixed. No value and a detriment to the hobby.

Leaving them all in the tank actually mimics nature as well. The only reason to take them to a grow out tank is to sell them. Left in tank a few usually make it. If your tank mates are appropriate and there is enough cover many will survive. It is actually nice for a display tank to have a few babies in there.

No hope for babies in my 120.
With my list of fish in that tank there is little to no hope for them.
i have many many many rock formations and a nice big piece of driftwood.
there are places for them to hide sure, but not against 24 others.

Actually the more the better. As you know Mbuna can get distracted from picking on other fish with many other fish in the tank. It depends more on which fish. If they are all aulonocara maybe. Pseudotropheus seem to leave fry alone.

If you don't want to sell or give away it can be interesting to see what happens. You may be surprised. Because they are mouth browsers the fry are at least a little bigger and if there is an established mulm, algae layer they feed off that. It was always so fun to watch the little guys dart in and out. One advantage of real rocks over fake caves are the variety of holes and caves.

I had a 125 about 10 years ago and I never stripped. It was always amazing to see what happened. Saulosi, labidochromis, labeotropheus all produced fry and many survived.

My brother made the mistake of adding a tanganyikan to the tank after I gave it to him and now all that is in it are brichardi. They protect the young. Pretty cool but he has 100+ now. No Malawi cichlid survived the Brichardi.

Recovering addict

Only 5 tanks now. 100, 100, 55, 50, and 10.

One thing I just thought of is that if you do selective breeding for a trait, like shrimp people do to get cherry red or other varieties if you cross those you may get wild type which is dull brown. Not pretty.

Aulonacara species are more stable than that because the fish themselves have done the selection over thousands of years. They actually don't mix that often. Read up on lake Malawi.

What makes it so unique is that we have fish who never leave a small region which allows so many varieties to coexist without contamination. The aquarium is an artificial environment because the territories are too small. Malawi has large rock piles with large sandy areas between them. This is why each species should also have a location as well to I'd which particular rock pile it comes from. As I said before if they traveled then they would eventually all end up the same.

WOW, tr182md, you have a wealth of information!!!! really glad you came aboard and posted on a few topics!! thanks so much!

sandnuka wrote:WOW, tr182md, you have a wealth of information!!!! really glad you came aboard and posted on a few topics!! thanks so much!

i agree

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lol

Thanks, glad I am not upsetting anyone! Lots of reading... Nerd I suppose. . There are people here with way more knowledge than me, I just have a big mouth.

Now if I can control my auto correct. Brooder not browser!