corkscrew val. questions AQUATIC PLANTS 101

I planted a few healthy corkscrew plants. They did well for the first 2 weeks, sprouting twisty leaves, shooting runners out. Then the leaves started turning transparent from the tips in and eroded away (melted?). In the picture you see the plant comming back, looking a bit better. I toned down on pressurized Co2 and cut back on my ferts. I also have a few other plants that seem to be growing abnormally that I'm trying to troubleshoot.

What I'm wondering is if this is normal?
What can I do to help these plants grow healthy?
Am I missing something? I'm fertilizing using EVERYTHING (in moderation)
Any hints, ideas?

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it will grow in, just takes awhile to come in good. i had good luck with those fertilizer tabs for roots. that and lighting with occasional liquid ferts.

theChad wrote:I planted a few healthy corkscrew plants. They did well for the first 2 weeks, sprouting twisty leaves, shooting runners out. Then the leaves started turning transparent from the tips in and eroded away (melted?). In the picture you see the plant comming back, looking a bit better. I toned down on pressurized Co2 and cut back on my ferts. I also have a few other plants that seem to be growing abnormally that I'm trying to troubleshoot.

What I'm wondering is if this is normal?
What can I do to help these plants grow healthy?
Am I missing something? I'm fertilizing using EVERYTHING (in moderation)
Any hints, ideas?

Hi theChad,

You were going to pick up a dKH/dGH test kit.....what were the results? Sometimes a calcium or magnesium deficiency will cause that type of condition. Also, what fertilizer(s) are you currently dosing?

Flourish Excel has been known to melt vals, but I don't imagine you're using that if you have CO2.

Seattle_Aquarist wrote:
You were going to pick up a dKH/dGH test kit.....what were the results? Sometimes a calcium or magnesium deficiency will cause that type of condition. Also, what fertilizer(s) are you currently dosing?

I'm using plethora of different types of ferts. I've reduced dosages a lot. I'm using perhaps 1/3 suggested due to a start of a dark green algae growth growth on leaves.

KH 10
GH 8

I've cut back on injected Co2

ferts;
Flourish IRON
Flourish
Flourish EXCEL
Aqua Vetro ENVY (carbohydrate, vitamins, amino acid, polyunsaturated fatty acid)
Aqua Vetro PROPEL (Time release iron, iron converter to ferrous iron)
3 types of powder Potasium (The chemical compositions have rubbed off the bags)






I have been using both in moderation. On the EXCEL dosage instructions it states that it's okay to use both...

Yes, it's okay to use both, but often not necessary. And since Excel is known to be harmful to vals, crypts, and inverts (it's okay for inverts at the basic 1ml / 10g dose, but don't dose much higher than that), if I were using CO2 I'd dispense with the excel. Used along with CO2 it's just an algaecide, which arguably isn't necessary if you're fertilizing right and using enough CO2.

Edit: What is your PH looking like in that tank? There's no need to cut back on the CO2 unless you're killing your PH.

PH 6.8

That's fine - don't stop the CO2

How much excel and you dosing and how often?

pbmax wrote:That's fine - don't stop the CO2

How much excel and you dosing and how often?

The tank is 140 gallon , I was dosing full amount 2-3X a week.
Last week I dropped the dose half and continued dosing just 2X a week.
I lessened the dose hoping to stop an excess of dark green spotty algae (?) growth that began growing on leaves and the walls of the tank.

How much each dose?

Hi theChad,

I think I know what your problem is.......it is the Excel. A few species of plants have problems with Excel/glutaraldehyde and the Vallisneria species is one of them as is Ceratophyllum demersum (hornwort).

Anthraxx wrote:it will grow in, just takes awhile to come in good. i had good luck with those fertilizer tabs for roots. that and lighting with occasional liquid ferts.

I thought mine would melt too but they set in after a bit o time.

pbmax wrote:How much each dose?

about 15-20ML EXCEL each dosage. Per the instructions that should cover 140-160 gallons. I've cut that in half for about a week now, also cut down dosing to 2X per week.


@Roy, I could totally cut out the EXCEL all together. Whatever it would take to get this plant rocking again like when I first planted it.

I did a little reading on the subject and it seems like they can tolerate lesser amounts and even be convinced to tolerate the full dosage as long as you work them up to it gradually. One person said their vals grew back after the initial melt and they never stopped dosing excel.

I think you might be able to get away with stepping the dosage back - maybe to 1/2 or 1/4 of the amount you were dosing, keeping it at twice a week. Personally I'd go with 1/4 the normal dose or none at all. Or punt on vals

My vals melted and fell apart after the initial exposure to flourish, but i cut back on the dose amount and they seem to be doing well, they arent growing very tall, but are sending out runners for new plants all over the place.

jrmakawoody wrote:My vals melted and fell apart after the initial exposure to flourish, but i cut back on the dose amount and they seem to be doing well, they arent growing very tall, but are sending out runners for new plants all over the place.

Being that this thread is a couple weeks old now, I appreciate your input. My vals are growing like yours. They still are not very tall (maybe 3 inches), but seem to be trying to make a comeback. I've been thinking about finding something to replace them. Like a val that's already 1-2 feet in length. Perhaps if I find a mature plant I may have better luck?

Vals will also often melt when acclimated to a new tank, so adding a mature plant likely won't help. If it hasn't been exposed to excel before then it'll likely die off just as fast as the smaller plants, I imagine.

You might try a sagittaria species like subulata or chilensis. Subulata looks a lot like the non-twisting val species. Chilensis has wider leaves, but generally the same look (non-twisting). I have a lot of subulata and I've used excel with it for years without any problems. It's a very hardy plant that stays pretty even in the presence of nutrient deficiencies. It grows slow for me in sand, but like lightning in my walstad tank. It'll grow up to 16" in length - longer in dirt than sand. It's not quite as fast-growing as vals are, which may be an upside depending how you look at it.

Here's a photo of that tank (see the long, thin plants along both sides):

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Thank you pbmax for the suggestion of species. I still haven't ruled out this val yet. It still looks like it wants to grow. Can't help thinking since its bounced back a bit that since its under 2 feet of water it will start out slow till the plant gets a little taller and closer to the lights. I often grow up short plants in a 30 gallon 1st to get some height to the plant. This plant started out @6-8 inches that's why I just put it in the larger tank...

I'll give it another month or so, then start searching for some Subulata. Then perhaps give someone these vals.

In my opinion, if the Vals or Echinodorus species don't grow high and have a lot of runners is a good sign, it means the plants have enough CO2 and lights and they don't need to develop vertically to get these nutrients. For me is more desirable to have horizontal rather than vertical development for these species(just imagine trying to trim the long leaves of these plants).

flo77 wrote:In my opinion, if the Vals or Echinodorus species don't grow high and have a lot of runners is a good sign, it means the plants have enough CO2 and lights and they don't need to develop vertically to get these nutrients. For me is more desirable to have horizontal rather than vertical development for these species(just imagine trying to trim the long leaves of these plants).

Interesting. The spot where I have these plants it would be okay for them to stay low. It would be perfect if they developed into a 6 inch matted grass. The plants are located in the middle/front. The thought would be a tall growing plant where dwarf cichlids and Angelfish could chill under cover. I've always liked the look of a tall grass bending at the surface of the water and flowing with the current. But, a 6 inch val matting into a grass would look great in that location too.

Im going to give this plant some time and see what it does.