Lighting - I searched..

I know, another lighting thread... I searched and searched and I guess I still have two questions on this topic..

Scientific Question
As far as all the reading i've done goes it says the only thing that matters is the spectrum and output for plant growth and health, i.e. the plant doesn't care where it gets the light be it LED, generic light bulb, fluorescent, it just matters that it's those spectrums and the amount of light it receives?
short version - LED/T5/T8/T12/Anything as long as the spectrum is the same it's the same, except longevity and price of the units

Mechanical Question
If I swap my T8's for LED's, or add LED's, is going through the clear plastic on my hood that's under my current bulb going to be an issue? I know most of the LED setups are clipped on the side of the tank, and I haven't found a lot of pictures where they are over a hood, and if so it's a glass hood, or the LED's are mounted in the plastic hood like mine..
short version - do I need a new hood to switch to LED, this is the setup I have now.. I can take more detailed pictures of the hood if need be! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thank you!!!

If you really want plants and LED lighting you probably would be better off going with a glass top instead and then getting some nice Finnex lighting. Trying to convert the existing set up will probably not be worth it because by the time you are done with the DIY stuff it will have cost just as much as buying that glass top and new light fixture.

DMD123 wrote:If you really want plants and LED lighting you probably would be better off going with a glass top instead and then getting some nice Finnex lighting. Trying to convert the existing set up will probably not be worth it because by the time you are done with the DIY stuff it will have cost just as much as buying that glass top and new light fixture.

Thanks for the reply, that's what it seemed like from everything i'd read but I wasn't quite sure if that was necessary..

I know some have found LED lights on eBay and made up stuff for a reasonable price. I have ordered stuff for DIY projects from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and been happy. I just think you would be happier with a true dedicated plant light.

Within the past few years there have been 'knock off' companies like Beamswork making pretty nice LED's for cheap. You can check them out on eBay or here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I have a Finnex Ray2 over an open tank. I have now raised it via some chain so it hangs over the tank (nothing fancy just looped around the light) and it's working great. My plants are really starting to take off but I know its not just the light, its the ferts too.

Finnex LED Light fixtures are great, I did a little review/demonstration on the ones we currently have in stock at Aquarium Co-Op. Watch the review and see which light fixture is good for you.

You will probably want the Ray2 for mid-high light, or even just a Fuge Ray Planted+ if you're doing low light.

Kits that are designed to go into pre existing fixtures are called RETRO FIT. I have not done the research but if u want to search for something that might be made to fit into your hoods you would search "RETRO FIT LED". or "RETRO FIT T5".
Even though an LED strip may fit in your little plastic light hoods I would not suggest modifying unless it was specifically designed to go in the hood. You may run into heating issues and shorten the life of a LED strip.

poffman wrote:I know, another lighting thread... I searched and searched and I guess I still have two questions on this topic..

Scientific Question
As far as all the reading i've done goes it says the only thing that matters is the spectrum and output for plant growth and health, i.e. the plant doesn't care where it gets the light be it LED, generic light bulb, fluorescent, it just matters that it's those spectrums and the amount of light it receives?
short version - LED/T5/T8/T12/Anything as long as the spectrum is the same it's the same, except longevity and price of the units

Mechanical Question
If I swap my T8's for LED's, or add LED's, is going through the clear plastic on my hood that's under my current bulb going to be an issue? I know most of the LED setups are clipped on the side of the tank, and I haven't found a lot of pictures where they are over a hood, and if so it's a glass hood, or the LED's are mounted in the plastic hood like mine..
short version - do I need a new hood to switch to LED, this is the setup I have now.. I can take more detailed pictures of the hood if need be! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thank you!!!

Hi poffman,

You are correct, plants do not care what the source of the light is as long as it is in the useable spectrum and has sufficient intensity.  GSAS has a PAR meter that members use to measure the light intensity so they have an idea as to what plants they should be able to grow.

Are your current fixtures Aqueon / All-Glass?  Do your current fixtures hold one or two bulbs in each fixture?  It is possible to retrofit existing fixtures with LED strips that are equal to or greater output than the LED fixtures available commercially.  Your tank appears to be a 75 or 90 gallon?  It can be difficult to get sufficient light down to the substrate level with taller tanks.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

DMD123 wrote:I know some have found LED lights on eBay and made up stuff for a reasonable price. I have ordered stuff for DIY projects from and been happy. I just think you would be happier with a true dedicated plant light.

Within the past few years there have been 'knock off' companies like Beamswork making pretty nice LED's for cheap. You can check them out on eBay or here

Thanks! I'll check that out, my father in law is a super handyman and used to do salt water, he's obsessed with LED's so I should chat with him and see if I can talk him into a project

cichlid-gal wrote:I have a Finnex Ray2 over an open tank.  I have now raised it via some chain so it hangs over the tank (nothing fancy just looped around the light) and it's working great.  My plants are really starting to take off but I know its not just the light, its the ferts too.

PokeSephiroth wrote:Finnex LED Light fixtures are great, I did a little review/demonstration on the ones we currently have in stock at Aquarium Co-Op. Watch the review and see which light fixture is good for you.

You will probably want the Ray2 for mid-high light, or even just a Fuge Ray Planted+ if you're doing low light.

Those Finnex are really gorgeous, i'll have to watch that video in more detail and check it out, thanks for the tips from both of you!! I unfortunately can't do a no lid tank because I have a few jumpers haha. Cichlid-gal if you have time could you post a picture?? If not no worries :)Just curious to see as much as possible on them.

fishNAbowl wrote:Kits that are designed to go into pre existing fixtures are called RETRO FIT. I have not done the research but if u want to search for something that might be made to fit into your hoods you would search "RETRO FIT LED". or "RETRO FIT T5".
Even thought an LED strip may fit in your little plastic light hoods I would not suggest modifying unless it was specifically designed to go in the hood. You may run into heating issues and shorten the life of a LED strip.

Seattle_Aquarist wrote:Hi poffman,

You are correct, plants do not care what the source of the light is as long as it is in the useable spectrum and has sufficient intensity.  GSAS has a PAR meter that members use to measure the light intensity so they have an idea as to what plants they should be able to grow.

Are your current fixtures Aqueon / All-Glass?  Do your current fixtures hold one or two bulbs in each fixture?  It is possible to retrofit existing fixtures with LED strips that are equal to or greater output than the LED fixtures available commercially.  Your tank appears to be a 75 or 90 gallon?  It can be difficult to get sufficient light down to the substrate level with taller tanks.

Hi there! My current fixtures are the ones that came with the tank, and it's a marineland tank. I can't post a link because I haven't been a member long enough but it's the 60 gallon setup from petsmart.. They hold 1 18" T8 right now, they're 15 watts and I swapped the bulbs which helped a lot but they do not have a reflector over the bulb and I think that it was designed more with viewing the fish in mind then plants etc. I saw a few different LED retrofit bulbs but they weren't 18" that I could find, I searched Amazon but not some of the sites that i've now been introduced to by the forum, those lights you have are very nice, where did those come from?

I did a bit of a light search not too long ago and settled on an AH Supply kit. Here is the thread on my little journey:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I was in a similar situation last month. I have my 55g that had 2 hoods like this:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The lighting was much too dim and I really wanted something to brighten the tank up. I did some research and decided I wanted the MonsterRay. I snagged some scrap pieces of glass and use those as the hood now, and this it what the tank looks like:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Much cleaner looking and brighter too!

Hi there! My current fixtures are the ones that came with the tank, and it's a marineland tank. I can't post a link because I haven't been a member long enough but it's the 60 gallon setup from petsmart.. They hold 1 18" T8 right now, they're 15 watts and I swapped the bulbs which helped a lot but they do not have a reflector over the bulb and I think that it was designed more with viewing the fish in mind then plants etc. I saw a few different LED retrofit bulbs but they weren't 18" that I could find, I searched Amazon but not some of the sites that i've now been introduced to by the forum, those lights you have are very nice, where did those come from?

Hi poffman,

Your 60 gallon is 48 3/8" wide X 12 7/8" deep X 24 7/8" high which is pretty tall; I have a 45 gallon tall that is also 24" high.  I tested a 24" long 26 watt LED retrofit fixture on it and got a PAR reading of 75 at a 20" depth which was my substrate level; this would be adequate for most except the most light demanding plants.  The good thing about LED's is you don't need a reflector, they project their light downwards only.  I am guessing that your fixtures are approximately 24" long so the 26 watt LED retrofit lamp which measures 21.5" should fit in the fixture.  I have seen the Finnex Ray 2 fixtures and they are nice, unfortunately the 24" long fixture is only 20 watts of output (20% less output).  Based upon my experience with 20 watt LED fixtures they provide approximately 20% lower PAR readings at all levels in the tank.  Keep in mind that LED lights do have some drawbacks; unlike fluorescent lights where you can change the "look" by changing the spectrum of the bulbs a LED fixture has a set spectrum and the "look" cannot be adjusted.

The LED lamp / retrofit kit I use is by [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The type of lighting is really up to you and what you want to pay for, either up front of over the life of the fixture if your replacing bulbs. Where some light sources may have different effects ie, leds may penetrate the water column deeper than cfls and t5ho. The only significant factors in my opinion are the heat the lights produces and spectrum of your light being emitted. I've tried leds, cfls, t5ho, t8,t12 and they all get the job done.

I talked to my coworker 01 Elctrician today about lighting as he use to work for a custom lighting company years ago. Now this does not make him an expert but his impression was LED although more vivid in appearance didnt have the same light output as a T5 or T8 setup.

 I suspect someone out there much smarter then he or I has already done research other then color spectrum... but thats my understanding at this point. I have 2 tanks that have LED but so far plants just are not performing(growth/coloration) like the plants in T5/T8 lit tanks.

Here is a study done by some engineers for general purpose. Pretty good comparison done by really smart people not trying to sell me something!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Chiisai wrote:I talked to my coworker 01 Elctrician today about lighting as he use to work for a custom lighting company years ago. Now this does not make him an expert but his impression was LED although more vivid in appearance didnt have the same light output as a T5 or T8 setup.

 I suspect someone out there much smarter then he or I has already done research other then color spectrum... but thats my understanding at this point. I have 2 tanks that have LED but so far plants just are not performing(growth/coloration) like the plants in T5/T8 lit tanks.

Here is a study done by some engineers for general purpose. Pretty good comparison done by really smart people not trying to sell me something!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I notice these results are from studies leading upto 2010. In 2010 I wasn't even considering LED due to cost. These seem like studies from house hold use. We all are aware that even though typical fluorescent bulb  can last an average of 3-5 years they are no use to a planted tank after 12 months. These prices also reflect 2010, and reflect what we buy in a hardware store for standard lighting. It does not reflect pricing for specialized plant grow or saltwater lighting which is a bit different. My specialized LEDS are supposed to last like 50,000 hours & I will hold them to that promise. If they fail then I will be searching for something different  . Again, these studies are done like 4 years ago. Over heating issues is something they may have had to deal with then but I have not heard of anything about these issues when doing my research over the last 6 months.

Now, I do not know what LED fixtures you are using but my plants are rocking! I got serious pearling going on, and getting more colors out of my plants than when I was using T5HO. Also, my LED's seem to penetrate deep water much better than my T5HO fixtures.

Seattle_Aquarist wrote:
Hi poffman,

Your 60 gallon is 48 3/8" wide X 12 7/8" deep X 24 7/8" high which is pretty tall; I have a 45 gallon tall that is also 24" high.  I tested a 24" long 26 watt LED retrofit fixture on it and got a PAR reading of 75 at a 20" depth which was my substrate level; this would be adequate for most except the most light demanding plants.  The good thing about LED's is you don't need a reflector, they project their light downwards only.  I am guessing that your fixtures are approximately 24" long so the 26 watt LED retrofit lamp which measures 21.5" should fit in the fixture.  I have seen the Finnex Ray 2 fixtures and they are nice, unfortunately the 24" long fixture is only 20 watts of output (20% less output).  Based upon my experience with 20 watt LED fixtures they provide approximately 20% lower PAR readings at all levels in the tank.  Keep in mind that LED lights do have some drawbacks; unlike fluorescent lights where you can change the "look" by changing the spectrum of the bulbs a LED fixture has a set spectrum and the "look" cannot be adjusted.

The LED lamp / retrofit kit I use is by

Very cool I will check those out! That would be a really nice way to do it, I'll consider that as a really good alternative to the Finnex because retrofitting that into my hood would be relatively straight forward and I think a really nice setup for what i'm looking at! I'm likely to PM you for help when I do order it!! Thanks so much

Will

poffman wrote:

Seattle_Aquarist wrote:
Hi poffman,

Your 60 gallon is 48 3/8" wide X 12 7/8" deep X 24 7/8" high which is pretty tall; I have a 45 gallon tall that is also 24" high.  I tested a 24" long 26 watt LED retrofit fixture on it and got a PAR reading of 75 at a 20" depth which was my substrate level; this would be adequate for most except the most light demanding plants.  The good thing about LED's is you don't need a reflector, they project their light downwards only.  I am guessing that your fixtures are approximately 24" long so the 26 watt LED retrofit lamp which measures 21.5" should fit in the fixture.  I have seen the Finnex Ray 2 fixtures and they are nice, unfortunately the 24" long fixture is only 20 watts of output (20% less output).  Based upon my experience with 20 watt LED fixtures they provide approximately 20% lower PAR readings at all levels in the tank.  Keep in mind that LED lights do have some drawbacks; unlike fluorescent lights where you can change the "look" by changing the spectrum of the bulbs a LED fixture has a set spectrum and the "look" cannot be adjusted.

The LED lamp / retrofit kit I use is by

Very cool I will check those out! That would be a really nice way to do it, I'll consider that as a really good alternative to the Finnex because retrofitting that into my hood would be relatively straight forward and I think a really nice setup for what i'm looking at! I'm likely to PM you for help when I do order it!! Thanks so much

Will

When I was looking to get a light for my 20g I decided to choose a Ray2 over a FugeRay because of the extra depth penetration. As you can see in my pictures in other threads I do have algae growth in the top levels of the tank, but once the plants hit critical mass the algae withers up and dies

fishNAbowl wrote:I notice these results are from studies leading upto 2010. In 2010 I wasn't even considering LED due to cost. These seem like studies from house hold use. We all are aware that even though typical fluorescent bulb  can last an average of 3-5 years they are no use to a planted tank after 12 months. These prices also reflect 2010, and reflect what we buy in a hardware store for standard lighting. It does not reflect pricing for specialized plant grow or saltwater lighting which is a bit different. My specialized LEDS are supposed to last like 50,000 hours & I will hold them to that promise. If they fail then I will be searching for something different  . Again, these studies are done like 4 years ago. Over heating issues is something they may have had to deal with then but I have not heard of anything about these issues when doing my research over the last 6 months.

Now, I do not know what LED fixtures you are using but my plants are rocking! I got serious pearling going on, and getting more colors out of my plants than when I was using T5HO. Also, my LED's seem to penetrate deep water much better than my T5HO fixtures.

Yes the results are from 2010 I was simply backing up my statement with a referance. I could be wrong but to my knowledge LED have not gotten much cheaper from 2010 to 2014. Also as far as lighting being different I am not so sure. I suppose a 10,000 Kelvin T5 isnt what you would use for your office or home(unless you like headaches) but as far as LEDs go.. their isnt much you can do to make them specialized for any purpose. They are self contained(water resistant/proof) and produce bright light. I suspect the only thing "Aquatic" about them is addition of colors other then white. On the lifetime (if you read the whole study) of the lights I thought it was interesting how the LED might survive for 35,000+ hours but lost quite a bit of its intensity about halfway through. This would tell me that your 50k hr LED will in fact provide light for about that time. But this study makes me think that perphaps they would not be as efficient after say 25k hours. It would be cool to find a lighting specialist that could compare and contrast from an unbiased viewpoint.

Update!

I ended up getting a 24 gallon rimless and bought a Ray II from it after watching the above video and chatting with Angelo at Aquarium Coop, i'm really happy with it on that tank and am likely to go that direction with my other tank too... The finnex are really high quality and I'm super happy with it.

Thanks for all the insight everyone!!

poffman wrote:Update!

I ended up getting a 24 gallon rimless and bought a Ray II from it after watching the above video and chatting with Angelo at Aquarium Coop, i'm really happy with it on that tank and am likely to go that direction with my other tank too... The finnex are really high quality and I'm super happy with it.

Thanks for all the insight everyone!!

Dont forget pictures:)

fishNAbowl wrote:Dont forget pictures:)

Just started a new thread over in the Photo's, Videos, and Journals section
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