Annual Killifish Thread!

[PokeSephiroth]

Let's make this THE Annual Killifish Thread (I s'pose non-annual Killies can be discussed here as well).

So... I haven't had much luck with my Annual Killifish... I keep receiving them as gifts, and they end up dying on me (how dare they!) . . . Dunno what I could be doing wrong... water is soft, and warm (78*F)... yeah, they still keep dying. Ugh. I've been given 3 pairs (2 pairs were Guentheri Killies, and the other was a pair of Rachovii Killies) . . . . ALL DEAD. With the exception of one female Guentheri, which is probably going to die anyway.

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Here's a picture of the Rachovii Male and Female...they only lasted about 2 months before they just gave up on me.
I didn't get a chance to take a picture of the Guentheri Killies, but yeah. They gave up on me after about 2 months as well. Pfft. Quitters. =P
I just don't get it... I kept em in my ... what I like to consider, my "healthiest" tank, which is my 20 gallon long heavily planted tank, where they shared the tank with white cloud mountain minnows and some guppies, I figured, they would eat any guppy fry that were in there (yay live food!) . . . but I still fed them from time to time with frozen blood worms, and live blackworms. And it's not like they just died from old age...no. They were only about 3 months old when I received them. So, they still had a good 10 more months or so of living before they would perish. . . I. Just. Don't. Get. It.

The person who gave me all these annual Killies, also gave me some Rachovii Eggs, and they should be ready to hatch in a month or two. I'm just scared of trying to hatch them, only to have them die on me. WHAT AM I DOING WROOOOOOOOOONG?!?!?! Blerg!!!

Anyway:

I saw this little pdf, and it seems to be informative, but still doesn't answer how my killlies keep dying off....alas, I would like to post it here for anyone else that might be interested in keeping these awesome fish.

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[MRTom]

This sounds like an interesting problem Poke. Can you give us more info to work with? I would like to know the expected lifespan and spawning cycle of the species you kept to know if a full year was expected or not. Next, water conditions. What are your parameters like? And how are you managing your temp? Do you see fluctuations? What were your water changes like while you had them? Did they affect PH/hardness in the process? Are there diseases in the tank that may not affect other hardier species but are kicking your killies in the groin? Finally the fish themselves. Were they trying to breed unsuccessfully and killing themselves in the process? The PDF you shared has spawning as a reason for early death.

I'm thinking we turn this into an all out scientific experiment and get these guys to breed! (remember you promised me some kilies when you started out! I'm still waiting for them!)

[PokeSephiroth]

MRTom: I'll provide more details when I'm home. I'm still at Mark's office hehehehe... should be heading home soon.

[PokeSephiroth]

(remember you promised me some kilies when you started out! I'm still waiting for them!)

LOL, did I really? Well, I'm not the kind of person to back down from my word. My memory is just not as good as it used to be. LOL!!! I do have some eggs, I could give you some of those and you could try hatching them and raising them
I think I have about 8 eggs or so. But yeah, they're still incubating.

[Squirmteben]

I've been keeping constanciea, an annual from Brazil for a little while. I had some bad luck in the beginning with them dying/being killed in a community tank. I even had one choke on a bloodworm and die!

I now have them set up in their own nano tank, where no other fish can kill them. The flow is low and I feed them just a tiny bit a couple times a day. You think living in ditches would make it so they could survive anything.

Thanks for the share on the pdf. My tank is unheated and this guide says that constanciae can survive down to 16 degrees C, so that's good news.
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(Not my fish, but this is what the male looks like)

[PokeSephiroth]

This sounds like an interesting problem Poke. Can you give us more info to work with? I would like to know the expected lifespan and spawning cycle of the species you kept to know if a full year was expected or not. Next, water conditions. What are your parameters like? And how are you managing your temp? Do you see fluctuations? What were your water changes like while you had them? Did they affect PH/hardness in the process? Are there diseases in the tank that may not affect other hardier species but are kicking your killies in the groin? Finally the fish themselves. Were they trying to breed unsuccessfully and killing themselves in the process? The PDF you shared has spawning as a reason for early death.

I'm thinking we turn this into an all out scientific experiment and get these guys to breed!

M'kay, I'm home now.
Let's see... when I had got them, I immediately drip acclimated them and then put them in my 20 gallon long tank. I mentioned that it was my "healthiest" tank, because it's the only tank that is heavily planted, I figure, more plants = more hiding spots and more nitrate absorbsion.

From what I can tell, Annual Killifish live about 1 year and 6 months, some longer, some shorter. Water params are:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: Less than 10ppm
pH: 7.0
Temp: 78 - I feel like it's maintained throughout the day and cools down by two-three degrees at night)
TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) is around 80ppm
General Hardness: 3dGH
Carbonate Hardness: 5dKH

As far as temperature is concerned, I'm using a 100 watt heater on it. I can't remember the brand though. Being covered by plants, I don't really see it LOL.

I'm not sure if there are any present diseases that pose an immediate threat in that tank... I've never had any fish get sick in that tank. Ever. But we can always assume there there are always diseases in any tank.

I hardly do any water changes in this tank, because it's dirted, it's really low maintenance. Water stays clean and nitrates stay low. As for those "trace elements" that are replaced by doing water changes...pfft, beats me. lol I usually do a water change in that tank, maybe once every three months.

I also had one of the pairs (Guentheri) in one of the cubicles in my 8foot long tanks, and those died off too. I made sure to keep a cubicle for themselves.

I did notice, that whenever I received them from my friend (Who, literally just lives 5 mins away from me), that the Males were trying to court the females, but I don't think that was enough to stress them to death.

[PokeSephiroth]

I've been keeping constanciea, an annual from Brazil for a little while. I had some bad luck in the beginning with them dying/being killed in a community tank. I even had one choke on a bloodworm and die!

I now have them set up in their own nano tank, where no other fish can kill them. The flow is low and I feed them just a tiny bit a couple times a day. You think living in ditches would make it so they could survive anything.

Thanks for the share on the pdf. My tank is unheated and this guide says that constanciae can survive down to 16 degrees C, so that's good news.
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(Not my fish, but this is what the male looks like)

Wow, that fish looks amazing!!

[Squirmteben]

Woops. I accidentally gave your post a (-). Don't know how to undo it.

Thanks, they're a CARES specie that the new GSAS president has been breeding. They're a really cool fish and I'm hoping I'll be able to successfully breed them.

[PokeSephiroth]

LOL.. I don't think you can undo a vote, but its the thought that counts LOL.

I hope you get a chance to breed them as well! I'd love some eggs from them if they do breed!

[fishNAbowl]

Woops. I accidentally gave your post a (-). Don't know how to undo it.

That's okay, Poke's REP is high enough, gesh.... Ha! JEEELLL UUUUS....


Hey Poke, sorry bout the Killi's.... Interesting though, the ones I gave you where in my most "unhealthiest" of tanks.... Like, major Cyno B battles & that kind of yucky stuff going on, and they bred... So weird, it's gotta be something you are missing... Like KH, or GH, or something odddd. Anything abnormal you have in the tank. Something you don't have in any other tank.?!?!?

[MRTom]

Yeah, I'm almost stumped too, maybe there are other killi lovers out there who can jump in. If I was you, I'd look into testing for those trace elements or at least doing some partial water replacement just in case. Another interesting thing to do might be to check your friend's water parameters.

Also, (and I hope someone can step in to check my logic/math here) I would check your TDS/GH/KH numbers again. If I read that correctly you have:
3dGH = 53.58 ppm CaCO3
5dKH = 109 ppm HCO3
+ 10ppm of nitrates...
----------------------
172ppm which is greater than your TDS reading of 80. Could that be right?

[PokeSephiroth]

Woops. I accidentally gave your post a (-). Don't know how to undo it.

That's okay, Poke's REP is high enough, gesh.... Ha! JEEELLL UUUUS....


Hey Poke, sorry bout the Killi's.... Interesting though, the ones I gave you where in my most "unhealthiest" of tanks.... Like, major Cyno B battles & that kind of yucky stuff going on, and they bred... So weird, it's gotta be something you are missing... Like KH, or GH, or something odddd. Anything abnormal you have in the tank. Something you don't have in any other tank.?!?!?

I'm just really butt hurt that you and my friend gave me fish and they ended up dying, I feel like I did something wrong. Ugh. :\ dunno...

[PokeSephiroth]

I talked to my friend and his water params are similar to mine. The only thing that's different, is that he uses CO2 in his tank...while I don't. But I don't think that would affect fish...

I tested my TDS a while back, when I borrowed it from Cory, so I'm sure the levels may have increased over time since then. So compared to the other results, they might not be as accurate.

Too lazy right now to test LOL.

[fishNAbowl]

I talked to my friend and his water params are similar to mine. The only thing that's different, is that he uses CO2 in his tank...while I don't. But I don't think that would affect fish...

I tested my TDS a while back, when I borrowed it from Cory, so I'm sure the levels may have increased over time since then. So compared to the other results, they might not be as accurate.

Too lazy right now to test LOL.

Hmmm, the Killi's you adopted from me came out of a tank that's injected with CO2 as well.... Weird....

[PokeSephiroth]

......how the heck... ugh. The only thing I can think of, is that the CO2 causes the plants to oxygenate the water more than a tank that doesn't have CO2...

Whatisthisidonteven...

[KaraWolf]

They have all secretly started breathing CO2 while in other people's tanks Poke. that or your providing TOO much O2. ha. idk what the problem actually is but would love to keep killi's in the future XDDD tooo pretty!!! But I think I'll figure out how to breed fish before I try a species that only lives a year and a half :(wanna make an unending supply!!

[pbmax]

Also, (and I hope someone can step in to check my logic/math here) I would check your TDS/GH/KH numbers again. If I read that correctly you have:
3dGH = 53.58 ppm CaCO3
5dKH = 109 ppm HCO3
+ 10ppm of nitrates...
----------------------
172ppm which is greater than your TDS reading of 80. Could that be right?

Unfortunately it doesn't exactly work that way. TDS is most often measured via conductivity. This misses some of the whole component, but gets most of it. My tap, for example, is at 4 dGH, 4 dKH, and a TDS of 71 ppm as measured by a conductivity meter.

Poke, what about PH between the two tanks? CO2 can make a big difference there. What was the water change regimen in your friend's tank? While some fish thrive in walstad tank, some others really don't (in my experience). We don't measure everything in our tank water - there are things that build up that we're not aware of.

[LuminousAphid]

I agree with PB, the thing that stands out the most to me is the infrequent water changes. Maybe the water is "clean" in the parameters that you are measuring, but there is something building up which isn't measured (I often hear of dissolved organic compounds or DOC's, which I don't really fully understand, but stuff like that)?

If you think about it, living in a ditch might seem like a dirty place to live, but it is actually constantly being replenished by new water from upstream, if the system is designed well. Also, with low water levels and high surface area, they might be used to a lot of oxygen... but then, the CO2 issue seems to say otherwise.

Also, could they have been outcompeted for available food? I know there's the guppy fry, and the additional food you added, but maybe most everything was getting eaten by the guppies and minnows. Are killies shy when it comes to eating with other fish? I'm sort of facing that issue with the new rams I have, I need to make sure I feed sinking and floating foods at the same time so that not everyone is trying to get the same food.

Keep in mind that this is based off of pretty much 0 knowledge of killifish, I'm just trying to throw things out there that may help.

[PokeSephiroth]

So............. I'm not sure what has happened, but my last Guentheri female has taken a turn for the worst, it was looking fine for a while, but now it just looks really ugly, looks like its got a deformed spine, and now has a hunched back. What the heeeeeeeck.... I just. don't. get. it!! UGH... water params are testing fine, i've tried using the test strips by API, I've tried using the liquid master test kit by API, and nothing out of the ordinary. UGH... I'm starting to just blame genetics. But...really, what the heck?! :\ I've been feeding my fish a good diet, rotating foods such as frozen daphnia, frozen blood worms, frozen cyclops, frozen brine shrimp, repashy super foods shrimp souffle, ken's fish veggie sticks with calcium, and flake food... it's gotta be genetics, right? Riiiiiight??

Here are some photos, and a video where you can see it clearer:
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[fishNAbowl]

Okay, wait. The only fish I have seen look deformed like this was born like that to begin with. Are u saying it was normal shaped before, then its "posture" started to bend like we see in the video?

[PokeSephiroth]

That is correct. Oddly enough, the other fish that are in the tank, tetras, german blue rams, pygmy cories, are all healthy looking. . . stupid killifish. Ugh. I'm glad it's finally dead, and no longer suffering.

[cichlid-gal]

Poor baby...I don't know about killis in particular but bent spines in other fish species can be caused by a number of things. Given the fact that the condition worsened and wasn't something there when you acquired the fish it has to be something other than genetics.

Some conditions causing crooked spines are simple like scoliosis (caused by a vitamin or mineral deficiency) with the most serious crooked spine diagnosis being Fish Tuberculosis (Fish TB). Stress, immune deficiences and other things can weaken the fish allowing opportunistic diseases to enter the fishes system. Fish TB can also be dangerous to humans (I'm sure you know all about this Poke working in the fish store).

The fact that your other fish are healthy is a good sign. Keep a watch on the tank and those others. I guess the one other thing I would add is that ANY time a crooked spine symptom shows up removal to a seperate tank would be a good course of action (I know your tank is divided but the water and filtration are shared right?)

[PokeSephiroth]

cichlid-gal: Lots of lovely info there, Donna! Fish TB was the first thing that popped in my head at first, and then I started getting paranoid about it, but hopefully it wasn't that. The tank that the female killi was in, was in a 15 gallon tank. The ones that were in the divided tanks are all gone now . . . I seem to be having the worst luck with these annual killifish. *sigh*

I am officially out of killifish, they're all dead. I'm just left with eggs, that are nearing the time where I should be dipping them in water to hatch, but I'm still hesitant about hatching the eggs.

The only thing I can't think of, is that the killifish I got, came from a 40 gallon breeder tank, that was moderately planted, that had the floramax substrate, and a pressurized co2 system.
Maybe the lack of co2 was what caused something to trigger a ticking time bomb in their bodies...

I can only hope that the eggs I hatch (whenever I decide to) will be better off, since they will start out in MY waters that don't have a pressurized co2 system... if that makes any sense.

[fishNAbowl]

Ugh, for the longest time i couldn't keep Apistogramma species alive longer than a month. I could never really put my finger on why they always died. Just like you i tried trouble shooting, but found nothing concrete. Even to this day i have issues keeping these little buggers alive. I have now housed like 10 different species & picked up at lest 20 Apistogrammas in the last YEAR. I have a total of 5 left, 2 I just picked up last week. its so frustrating but i totally dig these little guys. So, every move i make with tank maintenance is tiny. Water changes, small. Chemical (like ferts) additives, minute. This is in hopes not to kill any more.

[fishNAbowl]

I dont know why the Killi I gave u died though. They where real troupers. I am amazed they died.  I was wondering something though. The other killi u had where "annuals" , do you know how old they where? Maybe they where past their annual "death date" so to speak. Like they are only supposed to live like a year or two depending on species...

[PokeSephiroth]

The annuals I had were only about 3-4 months old, according to the previous owner when I got them at the time. By now, they should be 6-8 months old... still far from their dying point, had they died from "old age" :\

I think mother nature just doesn't want me taking care of killis or any kind. *le sigh*

[fishNAbowl]

The annuals I had were only about 3-4 months old, according to the previous owner when I got them at the time. By now, they should be 6-8 months old... still far from their dying point, had they died from "old age" :\

I think mother nature just doesn't want me taking care of killis or any kind. *le sigh*

Ugh:x 

[PokeSephiroth]

So nervous... I think I'm going to try hatching some Annual Killifish eggs today. It's been three months since they were laid, so it's about time I started hatching them. Ugh... dunno what to do. Been reading and researching how to go about doing this, and it's pretty overwhelming to say the least. . . Welps, here goes!

[Aquarium Co-Op]

Get your micro worms and baby brine ready

[fishNAbowl]

So nervous... I think I'm going to try hatching some Annual Killifish eggs today. It's been three months since they were laid, so it's about time I started hatching them. Ugh... dunno what to do. Been reading and researching how to go about doing this, and it's pretty overwhelming to say the least. . . Welps, here goes!

  

  

  

[PokeSephiroth]

It's been 4 days since I dumped the eggs in water, and still no movement (there should have been movement after at LEAST 2 hours...let alone 4 days). I'm going to just call it quits. What a waste of my time. :\

[fishNAbowl]

 .oO lest u tried!!

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