Discus Pair, Natural Planted Dr. Walstad Tank

After a ton of research, I had to try it! The Dr. Walstads Natural Planted tank Tech...... well, I figured it would be perfect as a small tank for my breeding pair of discus! I used soil bottom layer, super thin layer of aragonite sand, and a layer of regular sand and gravel on top to stop PH increase..... The soil and aragonite sand combined will produce a natural c02 in the water ....

What you guys think?

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close up of the soil, aragonite, sand and gravel,

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IMO the tank is way to small for discus and they will be to stressed and die. they will not breed if they are stressed. did the tank cycle? if not then the discus WILL die. the aragonite will raose the ph even if covered because the water will reach it. try and have a ph of around 6.4, thats best for discus. that pot is sharp and if they try to go inside they might get cut. sorry for pointing out all the bad things in the tank but i felt that its necesary if you want your discuss to thrive.

looks good sandnuka,

Looks good bro!

tanks is looking great man...and those discuss are looking good
did you use water from one of you bigger tanks?

Water, gravel, plants, decor, heater and filter all came from one of my larger tanks. So tank is completly cycled. Thanks for the comments guys.

Teddy- do some research before trying to correct someone. I have a large mixed discus tank. When a pair forms you need to remove them from there community tank and place them in a smaller tank to care for there young. It keeps them stress free. Lilydog (a mod on here) is a very successful discus breeder and I got him coaching me. Thanks for your two cents though.

And response to the aragonite, read the tech I'm using. My ph is between 6.4 and 6.8 the pot has also been sanded down after I broke it

I have one piece of medium bogwood in my 55 and it keeps the ph at a 6.4 constant. Just a thought in case the argonite does raise your ph more than intended.

Thanks cence..... Was going to throw in a big piece but it's soooo expensive!

Sorry to disapoint you Sandnuka but Teddyzapper is right to have doubt about this project. The tank is too small for adult discus, aragonite is not a substrate for softwater fish(by the way what is the KH and GH in that tank). If the plants are OK in a discus tank, the breedindg tank should be a sterile tank:it increase the surviving rate and make your life easier. Other small mistakes for a breeding tank: the filter intake must be protected by a sponge(or use a sponge filter) and the heater is in vertical position(you may have the surprise to see that the pair prefer to lay eggs on the heater and not on the pot).
If you will have succes with fry you need to feed them heavily and you need to remove the uneaten food by vacuuming the substrate and frequent water changes. This is not only against NPT principles but it will make you spending a lot of time for that tank maintenance.
However I hope that you will be succesfull in your project. I admire your courage and dedication in starting this set up and wish you good luck. Be sure that I'll look for all your up-dates on this project.

For the people that seem to not know much about discus and fish in that body style, discus prefer a tall tank over a long tank, they swim more horizontal than vertical. I should know since those use to be my fish and discus breeders use 20 gal tall tanks for breeding tanks for discus. So like sanduka said before it might be best for you to do some research before commenting. Also since that exact pair hes trying to spawn will most likey use the filter intake over the pot to spawn there eggs since thats what they did in my tank 6 different times you are correct about a sponge over the intake. But on the other hand the fry are not free swimming after they hatch they actually are like lice on the side of the parents since they feed from secreted food from under there scales. The whole planted tank idea isnt a bad idea if you take in count what the natural enviroment is where they come. Bare bottom tank is only beneficial for doing water changes and since the discus arent substrate spawners it should work just fine. This information is also the info that came from the actual breeder of the exact discus that sanduka has.

flo77 - I completly disagree with the tank is too small for adult discus breeding pair.... everything I have read... and the two discus breeders I have personally met, both use 20 and 29 gallon tanks for there breeding pairs.... the breeder who I have seen with the most success and lowest maintance setup is lilydog... .he uses the NPT system with all his breeders.... and fry

Now, I know that there are several different views on NPT and the raising of Frys naturally or being stripped and brought up brine shrimp before free swimming even occurs.... but, I have never seen a discus breeder with bigger than a 29 gallon tank for his fish.... So Im not sure where you guys are gettin your information, or if you have bread discus yourself... but i have seen this method work personally.

As for aragonite as substrate.... i totally agree.... thats why I am not using it as substrate.... I said quote "SUPER Thin layer of aragonite".... just a lil tiny bit.... on top of the soil... then covered with regular sand, and packed down with an inche of gravel on top.... So this will not fluctuate ph...and my water IS SUPER SOFT!!! so have not had a problem with this either.... PLEASE, PLEASE read up on something before commenting.

On top of it... what makes you think I will even keep this filter in the tank????? did I say anything about it???? honestly I planned on removing it after the tank continues to age a little.... then use a sponge filter I am workin on gettin cycled in a already aged tank.


THANK YOU ADDITCTEDATOFISH!!!

THAT JUST HAPPENED!!

I agree with the use of a 29 gal tank for breeding. a 20 gal tank unless the WC is 18" is too small for adult discus.(yes addictedtofish you are right they need tall tanks).
Aragonite is CaCO3. adding aragonite even in small quantities will increase both your KH and GH. It's a good ideea to check these parameters even if you know you have soft water. If you don't do water changes very oftenand you only complete the evaporated water be very atentive what water you use(hint: the Ca and Mg will not evaporate they will accumulate in the tank, that way will have the surprise to see your GH increasing).[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I disagree(but I like it, I consider it a challenge) with the idea of breeding discus in a planted tank.Adddtedoffish is a mistake to compare the natural condition with the condition you can offer in a tank. Anyway I would love to talk with people who had succes to breed discus in planted tanks.

sandnuka wrote:On top of it... what makes you think I will even keep this filter in the tank????? did I say anything about it???? honestly I planned on removing it after the tank continues to age a little.... then use a sponge filter I am workin on gettin cycled in a already aged tank.

That's a good idea. Make sure the filter is aged or you keep the both filters in the tank for let's say a week.

His name is ROB... he supplys midway with some of there discus and dwarfs..... his alias is lilydog on here and he is a mod.... has a marine biology degree, and makes a living out of breeding his fish.... you can contact his references as well if you like, jacko or cole would Im sure vouche for him. He has over 4000gallons in his garage all planted and soil aragonite substrate...... but he does use sponge filters

give him a shout, sure he would love to teach ya a thing or two.

here is a link to his thread too [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here is his substrate... maybe I am not explaining it correctly..... here is word for word what he does.

The easiest way I get co2 into my planted tanks is to use dirt. I put a 1-2" layer under the gravel. The soil decomposes anaerobicly and you get lots of co2 and a little h2s. The hydrogen sulfide causes the ph to drop and stay <6.0. No good for most fish. I resolved this by adding 1/2 cup marine substrate per square foot of floor space. Sprinkle it evenly over the soil then stratify your regular aquarium gravel over it. Sorry you cannot have water in your tank when you do this-new set ups only.
The idea is u don't stick your gravel vac more than a third into the gravel(upper layer only). I grow all my plants this way and it kicks @Ss. My most productive discus breed in these tanks vs sterile.
Sugar and yeast work well I've done it; only it gets old dumping out the nasties in your yeast bottle. I got nothing against reg co2 injection just the gear can be cost prohibitive. Anyone can afford a bag of soil and a couple cups of marine substrate. Try it u will be converted to the dirty side...
-lilydog aka rob

Thank you, I'm sure will be an interesting talk.
Not to mention that I'm interested in that method of obtaining CO2 for the tank. There are some chemical reactions that I don't understand I'm sure he can explain to me.