Betta Albimarginta Breeding Program/Project...

The Story:

So I recently decided to try my hand at breeding fish more than just a happy accident like before.  I became enamored by the Mouth Breeding, Betta Albimarginata (Strawberry Betta).  They weren't easy to get a hold of but Corry's shop (Aquarium Co-Op) had some via a breeder up in Bellingham.  Anyway, i got his last three he had and then got a beat on one more male up in Bellingham at Clarks.  Mine from Cory were wild caught and the one from Clarks was tank raised. So i thought I had 3 males and 1 female but it turns out I have 2 males and 2 females which is fine.  To my surprise my male I brought home from Clarks which had a female with it (wish I would have bought her now) was holding eggs... a lot of them.  A week later my male spit 22 tiny fry and thus started my effort in ernest.  There isn't a lot of info out there on this rare Betta but luckily one small breeder decided to post her luck with these fish and all of her experience via a forum and that helped me lots.  

Setup:

I have my four adult breeding Albi's in a planted 12g Eclipse tank. It wasn't the best set up but it was what i found for free and you can't beat that.  That was only tank I had ready to go and I didn't know one of my new fish was holding so I had to scramble as the fry were due...I set up a small 5g tank that I had empty for a hospital tank and left it bare bottom with oak leaves, alder cones and one big plant in the middle for the fry.  I used a sponge filter for gentle circulation and a heater as my tanks (all but one) are in my basement fish/work room. Before the adult male spit the fry I put him in a breeders net to separate him and give him some rest from the other fish. Once he spit the fish I put him in the hospital tank to rest from 16 days without food and so he could fatten up before the female could get to him again (Albi female will breed a male to death if left to it).  The fry stayed in the breeders net for micro feeding several times a day for a week until they got bigger and then I transferred the males back to the main tank and the fry until the 5g tank.  That was working great until I realized 22 fry in a 5g was getting cramped quickly.  My next step was to get a larger fry tank.  I found a great deal on a 20L on CR and added that to the fold, again with oak leaves, a few empty clay pots and some java moss and floating frogsbit and red root floater (thanks Daniel). I also have a sponge filter on that tank.

Next I added a metal wire rack that I got for cheap again on CR (pic below) to hold my three tank breeding station.

Currently: I have about 30 Albi fry from two breeding groups with the dominant male holding another large clutch of eggs, due in about 14 days.  Albi are slow to grow and hold only 10-30 eggs max (the most i've seen yet is 25) thus the reason for their high prices.  Aquarium Co-Op and Clarks have sold them in the $19-$24 price range. I also have a few really nice blue Betta Splendens  fry that I was given so i'm raising them too, although I won't do that again.

Food:

I'm feeding my fry many things but first start with micro worms and live BBS, then on to live Grindal worms, and now they eat all of those and mostly frozen blood worms and chopped up live black worms.

Temp: 70-73 degrees

Water: soft Seattle tap

Pic:

Here is the rack/breeding station...I'll upload the fish pics later but you can see a big (2.5'') male in my avatar...

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I have no tech data for you, just wanted to stop in and say WOW. Its threads like these that make me contemplate another set up. I was admiring your avatar. Congrats on the spawn.

fishNAbowl wrote:I have no tech data for you, just wanted to stop in and say WOW. Its threads like these that make me contemplate another set up. I was admiring your avatar. Congrats on the spawn.

Hey thanks, no worries, i'm just more posting this for fun and for other and ME to learn along the way. And maybe even sell some fish down the road!  

Very nice share of how you have set this up and made it successful with your breeding program. Thank you very much for sharing this. I'm still trying to figure out how to set up stuff to do my betta breeding with Midas. I have his main tank, I have the girls main tank, I have a breeding tank. Its the babies that I'm worried about. I don't have a great selection of live foods on hand. I'm trying to get that set up and going to cross my fingers and jump in. Your project inspires me to take the plunge. Nothing gained or lost without trying right? And I love your albimarginta...gorgeous.

cichlid-gal wrote:Very nice share of how you have set this up and made it successful with your breeding program.  Thank you very much for sharing this.  I'm still trying to figure out how to set up stuff to do my betta breeding with Midas.  I have his main tank, I have the girls main tank, I have a breeding tank.  Its the babies that I'm worried about.  I don't have a great selection of live foods on hand.  I'm trying to get that set up and going to cross my fingers and jump in.  Your project inspires me to take the plunge.  Nothing gained or lost without trying right?  And I love your albimarginta...gorgeous.

Thanks! For the fry I think Microworms are so easy/the easiest, seriously they are self sustaining and reproduce constantly! Did you pick up any starter cultures at the meeting?

The reason I went with this fish is I love the idea of a mouthbrooding fish, they do all the hard work for you... getting the eggs to hatch. Then you just have to keep the fry alive.  

Hey BFG, I'm the Bellingham breeder. Glad things are working out for you! Mouth breeders are amazing!These really are breeding machines. It sounds like you're doing it right by the fish. 25 is a good brood. And glad you're resting the male. After the first time I didn't bother separating the fry from the parents. If they have hiding places most should survive. I find it better to keep more males than females (3/1 is a good ratio) then you don't have to remove the male as she will spawn with one of the others while the previous papa recuperates. I've slowed down my production due to tank space but usually have a few groups available if interested. I'd like to sell through Cory so let him know if interested.

PS. IMO, and that of other breeders I read, microworms are comparable to white rice. Not a lot of nutrition unless you're gutloading them with nutrients. BBS are much better. Even quality flake food is better IMO and my tank bred fish eat just about anything.

You might like this.

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Hey thanks Plaamoo! I might get rid of my sub-dominant female and add another male plus the sub dominant female isn't having any fun and just gets pushed around. She is wild caught and very small.

Loved your video, that looks familiar. Yes they are crazy breeding addicts and I was thinking about keeping the fry in the same parent tank, maybe after this next batch. Plus if I get another male, which I was thinking about anyway it would give the female other options. It's good to hear that worked for you.

Haven't heard that about microworms as I was always told they were just protein. But for the first week I feed microworms every other feeding them move only to BBS.

Cory had some currently from another GSAS member who bought your Albi's from Cory originally. He beat me to them and that's why I had to take the wild caught fish which I didn't mind.

"Haven't heard that about microworms as I was always told they were just protein."

I have no scientific evidence to back this up, but I've read this opinion from more than one very experienced breeder.

It's a good idea to add to the gene pool. I'd actually like to get a few more wild caught at some point for this reason.

I did hear recently from Ian Fuller at the GSAS meeting that too many BBS can cause problems with the fish digestion. He also said the best food for fish were good ole earth worms.

If you want my wild sub-female (she's small) we could trade for one of your males?

Thanks, but I try to choose only the best stock for breeding. Is she young or a runt? If she's a runt you may want to separate her from the males so she doesn't breed. That might be good to try in any case to see if she grows better on her own.

plaamoo wrote:Thanks, but I try to choose only the best stock for breeding. Is she young or a runt? If she's a runt you may want to separate her from the males so she doesn't breed. That might be good to try in any case to see if she grows better on her own.

She is brave but smaller than the rest... all my wild caught are smaller then the tank breed/raised fish and you could see the difference at Cory's shop right away. The male from Clarks (the dominant male) is the biggest and I would guess he was tank raised as when I asked what he was they had to ask the person who stocks the fish and they said most likely tank raised but they said not locally so i'm guessing not from you but also not wild.

Still the 3 to 1 male to female would be better anyway like you said. Maybe I will put her on her own to see if she gets bigger or changes at all. I also thought about getting the biggest male out of my current 25 to use him... he has different genetics as his mother was from Clarks and he was just spit when I got him.

I have noticed some of my F1s & 2s growing quite large. It's not unusual for tank bred fish to grow a bit larger than wild caught for obvious reasons. I used to do quite a bit of business at Clark's and to my knowledge they get their betas from wetspot and most, if not all, are wild caught. I've sold them various fish & shrimp but not these. You can't trust what the kids there tell you.
One more thing I would mention. The females can also wear themselves out. My original matriarch died after not much more than a year. She bred constantly!

plaamoo wrote:I have noticed some of my F1s & 2s growing quite large. It's not unusual for tank bred fish to grow a bit larger than wild caught for obvious reasons. I used to do quite a bit of business at Clark's and to my knowledge they get their betas from wetspot and most, if not all, are wild caught. I've sold them various fish & shrimp but not these. You can't trust what the kids there tell you.
One more thing I would mention. The females can also wear themselves out. My original matriarch died after not much more than a year. She bred constantly!

Yes, i'm excited to see how big my dominate male from my fry will get, I think i'll keep that one! Maybe a female too! Yeah they could be wrong and to be honest I could have it backwards, I was just glad the fish was large and looking really nice and from a different gene pool.

Good to know about the female wearing out, it makes since!

How many fry did you raise and sell? I was going to try my hand on Aquabid at least once to see how it goes...but then again I just may post them here on to GSAS or sell them to an LFS.

Don't want to break up the flow of conversation here, but I am excited to watch this project progress! I love domestic and wild bettas of all kinds, although I've never tried a paternal mouthbrooder.

Gianne00 wrote:Don't want to break up the flow of conversation here, but I am excited to watch this project progress! I love domestic and wild bettas of all kinds, although I've never tried a paternal mouthbrooder.

Hey the more the merrier! Once I saw these fish I knew I had to breed them and i always liked the fact that the mouth brooding fish do a lot of the work/parenting for you so it's more fun to have and easier...so it's a win either way. They were a bit pricey but its fun having a fish that not a lot of people have. I also liked that my fish that are breeding are wild caught and the fry are F1.

Did I mention how slooooow they grow. I have a few b. spendens in with them (they were given to me) that were just a bit smaller than my Albi's and within a few weeks they surpassed them in size, especially girth. The spendens are pigs and will eat everything until their stomach can't take anymore so I'll be glad when they go to the LFS or someone else.  

I have Betta smaragdina and B. burdigala, and I agree, wilds are SO SLOW. I had a spawn of smaragdina and a spawn of splendens within a couple of days of one another...and I was jarring and showing the splendens while the smaragdina were still an inch and un-sexable. Crazy!

I've always wanted to try a mouthbrooding betta. I had a brief stint with betta rubra, but that was before I learned that I needed to double saran-wrap and tape down all of my tank lids Found him crispified on the floor the next morning. Maybe that's why I decided to try another couple of bubblenesting species first lol...

Another thing about the microworms...I've always been wary of them, because my first spawn of splendens I ever did, I relied almost exclusively on microworms, and the spawn came up with no ventrals. This seems to be a common phenomenon for bettas raised with only microworms...but as to why it happens, there are lots of inconclusive hypotheses. Some people say it's because the microworms foster a layer of icky bacteria on the bottom that burn/eat away the developing ventrals, others say the microworms are missing a key nutrient, etc, etc...but if you feed that AND BBS, then ventrals seem to develop ok. Has anyone had this problem with wild bettas? I stopped feeding microworms and rely completely on BBS, and as long as I don't overfeed, the fish develop fine and quickly...just one of those mysteries I suppose...

Gianne00 wrote:Another thing about the microworms...I've always been wary of them, because my first spawn of splendens I ever did, I relied almost exclusively on microworms, and the spawn came up with no ventrals. This seems to be a common phenomenon for bettas raised with only microworms...but as to why it happens, there are lots of inconclusive hypotheses. Some people say it's because the microworms foster a layer of icky bacteria on the bottom that burn/eat away the developing ventrals, others say the microworms are missing a key nutrient, etc, etc...but if you feed that AND BBS, then ventrals seem to develop ok. Has anyone had this problem with wild bettas? I stopped feeding microworms and rely completely on BBS, and as long as I don't overfeed, the fish develop fine and quickly...just one of those mysteries I suppose...

Wow never heard that about microworms, I use them sparingly and for the fry the first few weeks with BBS. Then move to just BBS, then grindal worms and BBS, etc etc.

Now that I see you breed bettas do you ever come across the marble pattern or even better yet Koi pattern, I want one!

There is a show this weekend that I am helping to host (California Betta Society). There will be a show auction, but the prices can be steep for quality show bettas that have been line bred and maintained here in the US. I can keep an eye out for good marbles. Koi bettas are still relatively rare in the US and most are imported directly from Thailand. Can PM me for details.

I think we need to get a few and breed them and rake in the money...

Sorry for these low quality pics, but between the tannins in the water and the refection I was going against I couldn't get a great shot but here are my Albi Fry/Juvi's...there are around 20 Albi's and 5 Splendens (which I'm even more anxious to move out as they are piggies)...

Group shot of the Albi's

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Waiting for food from heaven (i.e. the breeders net)  :

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Gianne00 wrote:I have Betta smaragdina and B. burdigala, and I agree, wilds are SO SLOW. I had a spawn of smaragdina and a spawn of splendens within a couple of days of one another...and I was jarring and showing the splendens while the smaragdina were still an inch and un-sexable. Crazy!

I've always wanted to try a mouthbrooding betta. I had a brief stint with betta rubra, but that was before I learned that I needed to double saran-wrap and tape down all of my tank lids :(Found him crispified on the floor the next morning. Maybe that's why I decided to try another couple of bubblenesting species first lol...

When do you decide to sell your fish, do you wait for a certain size or just to sex them? I can finally really start telling who the dominate males are on some of my juvi's but it's easiest on big boys, the rest are hard to tell still. Also today for the first time i saw two males flashing each other and seeing who was the biggest. That's a good sign as they were the two biggest out of the 20+ I have.

Also released 4 very small 2 week old fry with the older fry, they are strong swimmers now and they seem to be doing well 24 hrs. into their bigger space.

Did I mention both males are now holding, that's a first! They are about a week apart and since I only have one breeders net/cage I will either need to get another or do a juggling act.

Can't wait for pics of them in their new digs.

dwarfpike wrote:Can't wait for pics of them in their new digs.

ahh it's not that exciting  , i just released them into the 20g L I have pictured above. However, I'm thinking I might be looking at getting two more 20g L tanks for my rack..that way I would have three tanks all at 20g L. I would have the 20g L on the bottom rack with a divider in it for two different size fry, the newborns (I would add them after being in the breeders net for two weeks) and then the other side until they are big enough to go onto the middle rack which is their last stop before they are sold. Then the top rack I would get rid of my Eclipse tank and have another 20g L for the breeding adults. There are two pairs in there currently.

There are worse things to have than three 20 longs on a rack devoted to wild bettas.

True...I'm thinking I could even trade my 12g Eclipse setup for a 20g L with lid and light... even though it's always hard for me to part with any tank but I need a bigger tank not a fancy set up for these guys.

Here are a pair of Macs (even from the US) but they are unsexed and for the money that I would spend to buy and ship them I will try to find them around here first.

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Yeah, there was a sexed trio a couple of days ago. I think I rather try the unimac's or tigers first before taking on the macros myself. Get used to and learn on the easier species in the group before going for nashville.

I'm talking with someone locally who is getting some unimac's from a guy in FL soon, as in they are shipping. He likes my Albi's and wants to trade maybe but I'm not sure I want to go unimac and I don't have space for everything...unfortunately. Maybe i'll make a community of mouth brooders...that would be fun. Have a pair of all my favs.

one of my favs, but at the moment im concentrating on my macs. I do want a pair of simplex. to breed though

Ok so I have some Albi's for sale now and they are looking great I might add...I will post details in the "For Sale" section so go there for details!