Auto water changes vS. drip systems

Something I've been thinking about- installation of an auto water changer. Im having trouble finding good reading on the internet and only found 1 thread here. The thread on WFB was a very dark video on a "Drip system" and seemed unfinished. The concept sounds good but i have questions about it. Like chloramines on a drip system. Wouldn't you have to add conditioner everyday to eliminate chlorine and or chloramines? What about overflow on a drip system? How would you get the water returning the same as exiting?

Anyway , anyone that has experience or general knowledge of either system? Good resources for reading please share!

Thank you,
Chad

Im sure some on here will disagree with this, but I have a good friend that works for public utilities in Seattle, (plus I have asked my own water company). It is illegal for water companies to put chloramine in your water. Does it mean that some may if they need to make a drastic change in readings on their end? Possibly, but it is illegal.

So as for worrying about the chlorine? It comes into the tank at such a slow rate, I would believe that there is know where near enough water /chlorine to make a difference. (I havent used a dechlorinater at water change time in 3 years) So IMO its not necessary.

As for water levels, I would assume that you would also install an overflow at a certain level. Since I have wet/drys on my tanks, I would install that overflow drain in my wet/dry.

Drip systems are simple. I run one that changes 700 gallons weekly on my entire fishroom. I dont use conditioners or filters in my line due to my local water only having low levels of chlorine, but there are inline filters made to get out chlorine and chloramine if need be. Overflows are either drilled in tanks or DIY PVC versions that I can ellaborate more on if you dont want to drill, but I highly recommend drilling cause PVC overflows will fail. If tank has a sump you put the overflow to the desired water level and only excess drains out.

All the drip irragation parts (tubing, drippers, pressure regulators etc) can be found at a local Home Depot. Most run the line from their washer using a Y fitting but mine runs from an unused sink in the bathroom.

Drips are awesome. My maintenence time weekly went from like 5 hours to like 45 minutes lol and I get over 800 gallons changed total (one tank not on drip). Not to mention my nitrates never get over 5ppm.

Okay, I'm getting I'm the idea! I could technically drill a hole in the side of my sump at the desired water level. Then plumb into an existing drain under the house or just straight outside.
Then some sort of screen outside so bugs won't crawl in...


Plumbing in is no problem. I've already plumbed a washer/dryer Y under the kitchen sink with a quick release for my current water changes. I would just change that out, reattach the hot water. Then install a T on the cold outlet, a pressure regulator and perhaps a shut off valve...
Then about 8 feet of refrigerator water tubing. My tank is like 3 feet from the sink- only about 2 feet of tubing would be exposed ,unless... I used a router to create a groove for the tubing on the back side of the floor molding.... Oh, that's a good one

@ Madness, Fishman- Your about to save me $100's a year on dechlorinator....lol

Thanks for the input guys. If you can think of anything im missing or anything to add please let me know!

How hard is it to drill a hole through a new house wall for the drain? (my wife's going to kill me )

theChad wrote:How hard is it to drill a hole through a new house wall for the drain? (my wife's going to kill me )

Not hard at all, just make sure you caulk the penetration.

HA! thats what she said (couldnt resist)

Anthraxx wrote:HA! thats what she said (couldnt resist)

I was thinking it Anthrax but wasn't going to touch that one... This is a good topic and thread.

I will update this thread as I progress through the DYI auto drip set up.

OOOH!! I've been wanting to do a drip system in my house, and was totally worried about the chlorine being in the tank, if I do my research, call some water companies, and see what's up, that might make a big difference between buying a carbon filter, or not, inorder to filter out any chlorine/chloramine.

I'm definitely going to be watching this thread! Keep it up, theChad!

I started to set up a drip system on my new 160 gal and have got everything for it but just havent hooked it up yet but i finaly just got all my fish in the tank tonight so ill have to get on it soon. I'll let you know how it goes.

Nick_87 wrote:I started to set up a drip system on my new 160 gal and have got everything for it but just havent hooked it up yet but i finaly just got all my fish in the tank tonight so ill have to get on it soon. I'll let you know how it goes.

I would appreciate that.

Im still in the planing mode. Think I got everything figured out for the 140. I do have a 30 g sitting under the 140 with a HOB. Im trying to figure out a way to incorporate it into the drip system. The sump drain was easy to figure out. its getting a drain out the 30 g without using a small pump that's got me a little stumped now...

If one was to tee off the washer connection (which happens to be one door away from the garage) the system would go something like: T, pressure regulator, polyethylene tubing (the hazy, small diameter tubing for fridge water dispensers), then whatever size irrigation drip emitters? Seems simple enough.

May as well throw my overflow ideas out there too. I got the idea off of MFK I believe but it was super simple: a 3/4" bulkhead put in my sumps just before the return pump 1-2" below the water line, then add a 90* elbow to be able to adjust overflow amount and water level. For the incoming drip I would do it in the return pump chamber, or would the main tank be better?

These threads are love/hate as now I have been pushed over the edge and have a weekend project!

Addicted2CAs wrote:If one was to tee off the washer connection (which happens to be one door away from the garage) the system would go something like: T, pressure regulator, polyethylene tubing (the hazy, small diameter tubing for fridge water dispensers), then whatever size irrigation drip emitters? Seems simple enough.

May as well throw my overflow ideas out there too. I got the idea off of MFK I believe but it was super simple: a 3/4" bulkhead put in my sumps just before the return pump 1-2" below the water line, then add a 90* elbow to be able to adjust overflow amount and water level. For the incoming drip I would do it in the return pump chamber, or would the main tank be better?

These threads are love/hate as now I have been pushed over the edge and have a weekend project!

"Love/hate" - I know right!

For the drain I already know the appropriate level I want it at. Just below the last baffling. Any higher then I wouldn't get proper flow up and over the 2nd and 3rd baffling. As of right now (subject to change), I'm going to drill a small hole on the side of the sump. From there Im thinking I may tap threads into the acrylic. Then I could thread in a small compression fitting (no more than 1/2" should be needed). Of course I would use Teflon tape and perhaps a little silicon to seal everything up.

As for the drip, I was thinking of drilling a hole slightly smaller than the tube in my sump lid right between my duel sump inlets. Then shove the tube in. It'll hold!

As for water hook up; I'll plumb a T under my kitchen sink with a needle valve. I'll go through my cabnets till I hit the wall then im going to hide the tubing under my kitchen floor molding. My tank is in a dining area. Im going to drill a hole right through my wall and the water will "drip" into my flower gardens... I may even fill buckets with an overflow that way I could use this fertilizer and fish poop charged water for other plants outside...

I'll measure the drip by using a milk gallon then do the appropriate math.

I'm diggin the tapped hole in the sump for the incoming, that wouldn't be hard at all. I may have to rethink the overflow and partly steal your idea! lol My method would allow for a more exact water level control in which, now that you got me thinking, isn't needed. I like your idea as it will be much smaller and look clean, yet keep the water level right.

Sounds like you have this planned to a "T"!!

Addicted2CAs wrote:I'm diggin the tapped hole in the sump for the incoming, that wouldn't be hard at all. I may have to rethink the overflow and partly steal your idea! lol My method would allow for a more exact water level control in which, now that you got me thinking, isn't needed. I like your idea as it will be much smaller and look clean, yet keep the water level right.

Sounds like you have this planned to a "T"!!

Your idea with the elbow is what I have on my 2 inch bulk head water return to my exterior sump pump. I needed a way for my water pick up to be lower so I threw on some Teflon tape spun on a 2 inch elbow onto the bulk head. Now the water pickup is vacuuming water 1 inch from the bottom of my sump slightly tilted where I need it!!

Like minds think the same Ha!

Okay here it is. I took the plunge and installed an auto drip system.

Hardware;
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

1st the install of a T, then a needle valve.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Drilled and ran the water line under the sink. After I plumbed and tested the system I tacked the water line under the bar so no one can see it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Drain and pulled the sump to the side. I drilled the sump and the wall for the water overflow. Tapped threads into the sump.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Even though I used Teflon tape on the threads of the compression fitting I used a little silicon just in case. After I installed the line I filled the sump to test for leaks.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Here is the overflow in action. System running...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The other end...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I simply drilled a whole in my DYI sump top for the drip. I secured it with a zip tie on the other end for now so my cats don't pull it out...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
I'm also going to use the line for small water changes in my 30 gallon that sits under the 140 on the other side. There is full pressure running to the line so a 5-10 gallon water change will go pretty quick.

I'll still conduct gravel vacs every once in a while just to suck up debris in the nooks and crannies. Both tanks are pretty much fully planted making normal gravel vacs impossible.

I mathematically figured out the GPH drip to about 70 gallons per week for a 140 gallon tank. I normally only change 15-20% per week. Normal water changes are usually small to reduce shock. I figure that there's really no need to worry about this shock since this is a gradual and continuous flow. So, I could technically cycle out 50% of the water per week. I would like to increase this but do not want to harm the fish or plants. This is just guesstimating so any input would be appreciated.

Yes! That is awesome! I didn't get around to setting mine up this weekend, yours looks great! I like the simplicity aswell.

Now, I am really digging your setup with the needle valve instead of drip emitter for one reason: refilling after gravel vacs. Obviously a drip emitter will take forever, however with your setup what is keeping you from opening the valve and filling quite quickly? I like that, well done!

Wow, that's really neat!! I can't wait to try that out!!

Great job, theChad!! And thank you for doing this. This will definitely help us all out, so that we can also install our own drip systems in the future.

Addicted2CAs wrote:Yes! That is awesome! I didn't get around to setting mine up this weekend, yours looks great! I like the simplicity aswell.

Now, I am really digging your setup with the needle valve instead of drip emitter for one reason: refilling after gravel vacs. Obviously a drip emitter will take forever, however with your setup what is keeping you from opening the valve and filling quite quickly? I like that, well done!

Thanks!!

I could later attach other tanks inline to this with the use of drip emitters on the ends. I was thinking about ways to attach my 30 but didnt want to break down and drill a glass tank. Perhaps sometime in the future...

The only issues I can see is, 1- if my overflow clogs a bit it may over fill a bit. But I always maintain the overflow by listening to it, and visually checking in about every 3 days.
2. The outside end of the drain freezing if it gets cold enough. I figure I'll cover the exit line outside with either a wrap or slide foam over it. I dont foresee to much issue with this since the water is about 80 deg F, but its something I thought about....

It is possible that the constant flow of water will keep the end from freezing as it takes a significantly lower temp to freeze moving water. Perhaps not enough flow? What are you planning on changing over per week in that tank?

Couldn't you make a small hang-on-back overflow for the 30gal and just run a line into the tank or filter? I have a bunch of leftover polycarbonate you could use to make a small overflow if you wanted.

...

Water flow- Im in the experimental stage on this. With all the research I've already done the most I seen someone was changing out per week is 80%. Im housing fish that can be sensitive so im starting out at about %50 per week (70 gallons). Planning on doing more research and perhaps up the amount as long as the fish stay healthy.

Winter freeze - I'll more than likely insulate the hose and watch it closely this 1st winter and see what happens. NW doesn't get deep freezes so I think a little insulation will do.

hang on overflow- I thought about this for a bit and couldn't get past how to maintain a constant siphon with such a little amount exiting.

I was also thinking about plumbing the 30 gallon tank into the sump its sitting next to but I would need a 2 pump system and didn't really like that idea. (still thinking about this though..)

The hang on overflows are trippy in how they work and dont seem to make any sense at all but they work well. Do not reccomend though as they fail.

I do 1gph on my 55 and 75 doing 168 gallons changed weekly (over 300% for the 55 and over 200% on the 75) and .5gph on my 20-29 system changing 84 gallons (around 200%) and all the fish do is grow like mad.

fishman09 wrote:The hang on overflows are trippy in how they work and dont seem to make any sense at all but they work well. Do not reccomend though as they fail.

I do 1gph on my 55 and 75 doing 168 gallons changed weekly (over 300% for the 55 and over 200% on the 75) and .5gph on my 20-29 system changing 84 gallons (around 200%) and all the fish do is grow like mad.

Oh jeez, this is the kind of info im looking for. Thank you for jumping in. Seems like a whole lot more new water circulation than I was thinking about. That would be awesome to exchange that much water. My tank is planted so I would think cycling this much water flow would also replace trace elements. My water bill would rise but my fertilizer bill would drop...lol!

yeah here's my breakdown of how mine is setup

225/150 (same sump so 390 gallon system) 2gph=336 gallons weekly or 86% weekly
135=1gph drip changing 168 weekly or 124% weekly
75=1gph, 168 gallons or 224% weekly
55=1gph, 168 gallons or 305% weekly
20l= .5gph, 84 gallons or 420% weekly (output runs to 29g underneath and out through the 29)

Total of 756 gallons changed weekly without having to do anything on my part. Were only using an extra 20$ on water above the base charge so not breaking the bank there.

Very nice Fishman09. I do like the 20 and 29 water cascade. Did you drill glass at the proper overflow depth or use another method?

theChad wrote:Very nice Fishman09. I do like the 20 and 29 water cascade. Did you drill glass at the proper overflow depth or use another method?

All tanks except the 135 are drilled and on that one I use a dual DIY PVC overflow that works perfectly.

fishman09 wrote:

theChad wrote:Very nice Fishman09. I do like the 20 and 29 water cascade. Did you drill glass at the proper overflow depth or use another method?

All tanks except the 135 are drilled and on that one I use a dual DIY PVC overflow that works perfectly.

Anyway you can elaborate on the duel overflow system? Perhaps a picture? I would like to incorporate a 29 into the system.
My 29 sits right next to my 30 gallon sump. I could technically drill another hole in the sump about 4-5 inches below the rim for the 29 gallon tanks exit water.
I have been contemplating draining and drilling the 29. I've never drilled a glass tank and was unsure if i would compromise its integrity by drilling a small hole only 2-3 inches from the top of the tank.

Perhaps if you dont mind sharing more info- could you share just how you drilled the small exit hole on your 20 &29 , and perhaps the hardwear used to drill and plumb?

fishman09 wrote:The hang on overflows are trippy in how they work and dont seem to make any sense at all but they work well. Do not reccomend though as they fail.

I do 1gph on my 55 and 75 doing 168 gallons changed weekly (over 300% for the 55 and over 200% on the 75) and .5gph on my 20-29 system changing 84 gallons (around 200%) and all the fish do is grow like mad.

Curious as to why you say this. Possibly a bad personal experience? I run two and they are incredibly stable and reliable, one being DIY. I don't use the skimmer style though, it is dual 1.5" U-tubes from the tank to overflow.

Wow that is ALOT of water turnover! Nice. I bet you can watch the growth!

Thanks to this thread I went ahead and installed one as well. As fishman said these are super simple.

First off I added a T off the washer cold water faucet then attached a garden hose adapter with ball valve to the T. Off the adapter is a female garden hose thread to a 1/4" compression fitting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Punched a small hole through the wall and routed the line to the sump and attached a 1gph emitter.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


For drain I drilled a 1/2" hole in the sump and added a 1/2" NPT to 1/4" compression fitting. I then screwed the fitting into the 1/2" hole using the fitting to make threads, and being tapered they come up tight and seal themselves. I also placed the drain before the new water as to minimize sucking out good water. This way the water goes in the pump chamber and directly to the tank.
After that I routed the 1/4" line along the wall and out the garage.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Awesome!!

I've only ran into one issue so far... All my angel fish now school under my water return and swim up the current nearly ALL DAY!.... Lol. I think they dig the fresh water or something.

theChad wrote:Awesome!!

I've only ran into one issue so far... All my angel fish now school under my water return and swim up the current nearly ALL DAY!.... Lol. I think they dig the fresh water or something.

Maybe this is really the way to go as far as fish health?!
Only ran into one problem and that is my drain being the same size as the source. It drains fine, however being gravity fed the incoming is slightly faster than the drain as the drain is working off a 2-3 degree slope. So it works but not as much as I need. Granted it would take about 3 days to start overflowing the sump I am still going to bump the drain to 3/8" tonight and see what happens.

Addicted2CAs wrote:

theChad wrote:Awesome!!

I've only ran into one issue so far... All my angel fish now school under my water return and swim up the current nearly ALL DAY!.... Lol. I think they dig the fresh water or something.

Maybe this is really the way to go as far as fish health?!
Only ran into one problem and that is my drain being the same size as the source. It drains fine, however being gravity fed the incoming is slightly faster than the drain as the drain is working off a 2-3 degree slope. So it works but not as much as I need. Granted it would take about 3 days to start overflowing the sump I am still going to bump the drain to 3/8" tonight and see what happens.

I thought I would have this problem too (thought about it after i drilled&plumbed), but the drain is keeping up. My drain is maybe 2.6 feet and at a good downward angle. My flow is about 1 gallon per 1.5-2 hours.

I may up the diameter later if I plump in my 30 gallon. Every once in a while the drain will "burp"... Like stop flowing, then the water will raise maybe a half inch above the drain then it will rush out...

Im not 100% comfortable with this but I monitor my tank pretty closely and like you it will take days before the water would even come near the top of the sump. Over all the system was been running consistently enough to have faith in it.

That's exactly what mine was doing, raising an inch then draining. However each time it raises I can see it goes slightly higher. I also want to go bigger in case of a power outage, my sump doesn't have the capacity to hold all the tank water. This way it will simple water the garden!

I can't think of it for the life of me but I know there is another reason why the drain should always be larger than the incoming. hmmm......google for the win!

Addicted2CAs wrote:That's exactly what mine was doing, raising an inch then draining. However each time it raises I can see it goes slightly higher. I also want to go bigger in case of a power outage, my sump doesn't have the capacity to hold all the tank water. This way it will simple water the garden!

I can't think of it for the life of me but I know there is another reason why the drain should always be larger than the incoming. hmmm......google for the win!

Im not understanding the power outage thing?!?! The sump system is self contained and should stop and restart in the case of a power outage...

So I have two 1.5" U-tubes feeding water from tank to overflow and then in each bulkhead is a 1" piece of PVC that dictates main tank water level. When power goes out, pump shuts down and the water will continue to drain into the wet/dry until main tank is at the level of those tubes, filling the wet/dry. Since my wet/dry was made to use an external pump it is alot lower and longer than my other wet/dry's reducing its ability to hold that overflowing tank water. And you are correct, when the power comes back on it will all balance itself again.

Hope that makes some sense!

Addicted2CAs wrote:So I have two 1.5" U-tubes feeding water from tank to overflow and then in each bulkhead is a 1" piece of PVC that dictates main tank water level. When power goes out, pump shuts down and the water will continue to drain into the wet/dry until main tank is at the level of those tubes, filling the wet/dry. Since my wet/dry was made to use an external pump it is alot lower and longer than my other wet/dry's reducing its ability to hold that overflowing tank water. And you are correct, when the power comes back on it will all balance itself again.

Hope that makes some sense!

DOH!

An overflow box would prevent a sump overflow issue. Once the water level gets under the skimmer of the overflow syphon stops! Then a check valve on the water return line will prevent back flow siphon through the pump. My sump level rises maybe an inch when power is cut...

Mine works the same way except it is setup exactly opposite. Instead of the teeth of a skimmer being the level dictator the standpipes in the box themselves do that and I usually keep them small to keep lots of pressure on them hence moving lots of water.

Addicted2CAs wrote:Mine works the same way except it is setup exactly opposite. Instead of the teeth of a skimmer being the level dictator the standpipes in the box themselves do that and I usually keep them small to keep lots of pressure on them hence moving lots of water.

This is a DYI setup? Do you mind sharing pictures? How many times per hour are you cycling the tank using this system?
.... Just curious....

Yep its DIY. Check out that link below, first post, third picture that is the overflow. I will get some pics tonight of it setup and in action. The pump is a Rio 26HF pushing 1500 at 0' head, The companies chart says 1040gph at 6', I'd say that is pretty accurate.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Finally got the auto drip up. It ran through the night and is still going strong. I picked up some 3/8" ID polyethylene tubing and it works like a charm, constant trickle out into the garden. I'm going to chock that up as a win!

I remember that post! Your effn DYI overflow box looks better than mine and it retails for like $180...ha!

I would be interested in seeing this thing in action... I love DYI projects especially when they turn out as good as or better than manufacture designs.

haha thanks man! First time messing with polycarbonate and it wasn't too bad. I will throw a video up tonight of it in action, I think its pretty sweet! Only downfall with the way I have it setup makes it loud but the tanks are in the garage so I'm not too concerned! Oh, and the fish are super happy so thats all that really matters!

Here's a quick vid of the system running.