Do you feed more than once/ day? If so, read on

I just spent some time reading this particular thread on MFK. Though a lot of you stay away from MFK due to forum thugs. This thread is very informative, and the link to the study is very impressive. I will post links to both, but you should really read the comments in the actual thread. Members like Modest_Man, Aquamojo, and RD, have filled this thread with solid information and comments.

Here is the link to the MFK thread: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Link to the article: can be found here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I myself feed my fish once per day and that usually happens around 1pm. If I am away, and I dont get home till late, I dont feed at all. But I do try to feed 7 days/week. After reading this thread, I wont feel like I am neglecting my fish if I skip a day or 2 every week.

I would suggest reading the entire thread, and article. It is a long read, but there is great info and comments throughout the entire thing.

Then tell us here on Wafishbox, what your experiences are, and your comments about the thread/article.

DO YOU OVER FEED?????

I dont overfeed, but my fish do over eat!

I feed my fish twice a day of a mixture of different pellets. Right now they are still in a growing phase of their life and they do eat a lot. I use a measuring spoon and measure out the amount for their feedings and then put it in a pill box marked with the days of the week on it. My biggest challenge is to try and keep the hard core eaters busy so that all the fish have a chance at the food. To help accomplish this I use a variety of sized pellets and sticks. I find the greedy eaters always go for large food that they can not eat quickly and this allows the other shy feeders to get food. I do feel that by measuring out my portions and mixing the types of food I get less issues with overfeeding.

I try to feed small amounts of different food twice a day. I'll do flakes in the AM and pellet/dried blood worms/glass worms in the evening.

Although, the only fish I only feed once a day is my Striped Raphael Catfish, he gets 2 catfish pellets in the evening. During the day he gets the scraps lol

Good information; thanks for posting!

I irregularly skip feedings, but I think I'll reduce feedings to 4 or 5 times a week for now and only once a day. I imagine this will boost water quality as well as improve overall health.

Except where I have babies...

Good Info! I typically feed my fish once a day when they are young, and run an every other day type of feeding schedule when they get over 6" or so (but only because I didn't want them to outgrow my tanks forcing me to get rid of them) I always felt guilty about this, but it appears I was actually doing them a "solid".... who would have guessed? Thanks for sharing!

I need to read through that article another time or two to fully comprehend it, but I'm not understanding how people are concluding from that study that they should be feeding once a day and regularly skipping days? There were many different species in the study and the way I read it, most of them did not have empty stomachs for long periods of time.

I do agree that many hobbyists overfeed their fish, judging by pictures I've seen posted on various forums, but that can happen in one feeding per day if they are feeding too much in that one meal. I feed mine sparingly twice a day and I skip occasionally, but not regularly.

Its not just the article with good info. Your question is answered in the thread content itself. I had the same questions myself, but after reading everything, it makes a lot of sense.

I read through the thread also, but didn't find the answer to why once a day. Is there a difference in feeding one time a day or dividing that meal in half and feeding it twice a day? I'm just trying to understand why everyone seems to agree that they should only feed once a day and skip days regularly. If it's healthier for all fish to do it that way, I'd do it too, but I'd like to know why.

In reading the thread I saw somebody post that they fed 2 times a day with small portions. In my opinion this is ideal for alot of the hyper type fish. I think that if you are feeding (im going to use some rough numbers for simplicity) 6 1mm pellets a day, then feeding 2 now, 2 in a few hours, and 2 an hour before lights out would give very similar resluts to feeding all 6 at one time. But in the case of preditory fish, the 1 big feeding every few days or so is more natural. The one thing that I dident see in the thread (dident read the article yet) that has always been something that concerns me is when you feed. I hear of people feeding once in the mourning and once at night. I cant help but hit a point that was touched on a few times in the thread. The whole energy used vs calories consumed. We all know how little energy most of our fish use at night, so I have never been keen on feeding my fish any less then 3 hours before lights out. Again, this is just something I have always been concerned with and I am not sure if it holds any value. But Its a general rule that I follow because I dont want all those calories to just sit in my fishs' gut. Thanks for sharing Madness, I missed this on MFk.

vw, I get what you are saying about the late feedings. The fish metabolism will naturally go down so they really would not need to eat. But in nature fish eat when food is present and it seems like sundown is a common feeding time for some. But of course that may just be because that is when all the insects come out and are more readily available. Just a theory.

Hmmm.. Very true, intresting. But you see what im saying about the "calories just sitting"? I guess this mostly stems from my personal experiance with my own stomach. I love to sleep on a full belly, but after speeking to a health nut friend of mine, he said that is horrible as far as fat storage goes. Because if you dont burn the calories, then they are converted to fat for storage. I am curious how long the food sits in a fishs' gut after they eat it. And then how long it takes for the body to convert it to useable energy or stores it as fat. Maybe its in the article. Maybe I should read it...... Eeehhhn I will do it tomorrow. For now, a big bowl of icecream, followed by bed.

Vw, your example above is exactly what I was thinking. I'd rather break the feedings up like that while keeping the total the same. 6 pellets a day -- 3 in the morning and 3 in the afternoon instead of all 6 at one time.

The study talks about the amount of time fish have empty stomachs. Some quotes from the article:

"Mean percentage of empty stomachs was low across
all fishes sampled ... but ranged considerably for individual species."

"Piscivorous fishes seem to be the only trophic group that regularly experience long periods of empty stomachs,
with species that consume prey whole and those that provide extended parental care having the highest proportions of empty stomachs."

"Nocturnal fishes had empty stomachs more frequently than diurnal fishes."

"On average, most fishes possessed food in their stomachs."

"The overall mean percentage of empty stomachs for all species
was 16.2%."

The overall average of empty bellies is actually pretty low at only 16%.

In nature food has to be worked for, fish may have to hunt or graze all day to get sufficient calories and nutrition. I notice that even after I feed, the fish tend to go along the bottom of the tank and peck around looking for more food. So the natural eating instinct kicks in. I like to feed more than once a day but I have been working on portion control so as not to overfeed. I too like the idea of breaking up the feedings.

I am a very firm believer in multple small feedings throughout the day for all my fish. Of course skipping a day happens here or there and for my big guys I have been exclusively feeding a new food called Max Attack which has like 4 times the fiber (15%) than all the major brands and my fish love it and its making a difference after 2 weeks already. My fish are much more active and seem to be putting on healthy size more quickly than ever without unhealthy bloating or any weird looking poop. I never feed what they wont eat in a matter or seconds (like 2 pellets) and my fish are loving it. Once my fish hit adult size my feedings will decrease but imo when fish are still growing at a decent rate they need to eat often in order too keep the metabolism moving and reduce wasted food just sitting in the gut, cause who knows if a fish can actually process 5 pellets in a once a day feeding and how much just goes straight out into waste vs like 2 pellets twice a day which may get entirely absorbed into the system due to the smaller amount and higher fequencey which should keep the food constantly moving throught the system. Fiber content is something ive always thought was missing from my fish food and have now found an awesome product with tons of fiber. Ive gotten to know the maker of the Attack foods and he is a very standup guy with amazing products and has become my exclusive food in the fishroom, Check out his auctions on aquabid.

fishman09 wrote:I am a very firm believer in multple small feedings throughout the day for all my fish. Of course skipping a day happens here or there and for my big guys I have been exclusively feeding a new food called Max Attack which has like 4 times the fiber (15%) than all the major brands and my fish love it and its making a difference after 2 weeks already. My fish are much more active and seem to be putting on healthy size more quickly than ever without unhealthy bloating or any weird looking poop. I never feed what they wont eat in a matter or seconds (like 2 pellets) and my fish are loving it. Once my fish hit adult size my feedings will decrease but imo when fish are still growing at a decent rate they need to eat often in order too keep the metabolism moving and reduce wasted food just sitting in the gut, cause who knows if a fish can actually process 5 pellets in a once a day feeding and how much just goes straight out into waste vs like 2 pellets twice a day which may get entirely absorbed into the system due to the smaller amount and higher fequencey which should keep the food constantly moving throught the system. Fiber content is something ive always thought was missing from my fish food and have now found an awesome product with tons of fiber. Ive gotten to know the maker of the Attack foods and he is a very standup guy with amazing products and has become my exclusive food in the fishroom, Check out his auctions on aquabid.

Interesting, I may try some of this. But 1 question, I thought that food for Koi and food for Cichlids are 2 different things and should not be mixed. Why would you feed your Cichlids Koi food? The reason I do is because the Koi food that I use is higher in fiber. Remember that convo?

Just trying to bust your chops. Always looking for a good food regardless of who makes it.

Also there are some great questions and discussions starting on this topic. Lets keep it up.

Yeah i guess it does say can feed koi too lol but not designed only with koi in mind and having had convos with Uncle Rick i was convinced and to be honest my dovii has put on 1" in three weeks since starting the food. I like the simple high qauality and short ingredient list also. No fluff in there and my fish including fry are loving the stuff. Combination of fiber and multiple feeding are having my fish looking better than ever. I will be here on out be using exclusively foods from Uncle Ricks line. We'll see with my umbee, rtm, and freddy fry what kind of results this stuff will have. Already have a male dovii @ 2.5" showing serious blues.

I am definitely going to give it a shot.

madness wrote:
Interesting, I may try some of this. But 1 question, I thought that food for Koi and food for Cichlids are 2 different things and should not be mixed. Why would you feed your Cichlids Koi food? The reason I do is because the Koi food that I use is higher in fiber. Remember that convo?

Just trying to bust your chops. Always looking for a good food regardless of who makes it.

LOL - yes I started all that with my plant based food topic!

I have read many people having issue with foods that tend to bulk up/expand when they get wet. Some have claimed these foods have killed their fish. So this goes right along with the whole overfeed topic.

I have noticed problems when I feed Hikari Food sticks and Omega One floating pellets, that these foods expand when they get into the fishes digestive systems. My fish will look bloated and fat. I still use these foods but in very small amounts in my mix but once Im done with some of my stockpile that is it, I will not get any more. I am in the process of a 80% NLS conversion with Omega One Kelp pellets and Algae wafers for the other 20%.

Isent max attack super fatty? Wasent that what we are trying to learn about from the mfk article/thread? 50% protein and 18% fat seems like a food that would contribute to the "unexplainable early deaths" mentioned on the mfk thread. To me that food seems like a fish farm food. I would say, a total of 68% protein/fat will always yield high growth rate. But at what expense? It just seems those numbers are a bit contradicting to the info we learned about in the article/thread.

All the more reason to feed once/day.

You nailed it fish n vw. That food is NOT going to be healthy for any species of fish long term, I don't care what anyone says.

Forrest, you think that in what, 30 days or less you can judge what a food is doing for your fish by simply viewing the fish in your tank? You obviously need to go back & re-read the thread that Shawn originally linked to.

Fiber content is something ive always thought was missing from my fish food and have now found an awesome product with tons of fiber.

Fish aren't humans, Forrest. lol

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After watching your video on youtube it has become rather clear that you still don't understand some of the basic fundamentals involving feeding cichlids. The sales spiel being used to promote this food is utter nonsense. Specifically, "the latest scientific information on big fish is that they need less protein and fat, but more fiber as adults". Really? Show me this "latest science". I love to learn new stuff.

Certainly adult fish require less protein & fat (far less than the 45% protein & 18% fat that is found in this food) but they sure as hell don't require anything remotely close to 15% fiber.

And, if what this person states about protein & fat is true for adult fish (which it is) then why on earth is he selling food with 45% protein & 18% fat? Are you freaking serious? This guy is talking straight out of his butt, and I can't believe that after all of this time you would buy some BS line from some guy selling food on the interweb. His numbers read like a generic trout chow used to pump a fish up in the least amount of time humanly possible. You think that this is health food?

As far as fiber content, here's todays lesson on fiber/fibre in food designed for FISH.

The following is an excerpt from the Nutrient Requirements of Fish, written by some of the worlds leading experts on the subject of fish nutrition, and published by the National Research Council.

FIBER

Fiber refers to indigestible plant matter such as cellulose, hemicellulose, lignin, pentosans, and other complex carbohydrates found in feedstuffs. These components are indigestible unless bacterial action occurs within the digestive tract. Fish do not secrete cellulase (Lindsay and Harris, 1980; Bergot, 1981), therefore cellulose digestion does not play an important role in their nutrition.

Fiber provides physical bulk to the feed. Cellulose and hemicellulose have been used as diluents and binders in experimental fish diets. Dietary fiber improved gastric evacuation time of rainbow trout fed purified diets (Hilton et al., 1983). Buhler and Halver (1961) reported that small amounts of supplemental cellulose increased growth and the efficiency of protein utilization in laboratory diets. Most fish can tolerate up to 8 percent fiber in their diets, but higher concentrations (8 to 30 percent) depress growth (Buhler and Halver, 1961; Leary and Lovell, 1975; Edwards et al., 1977; Hilton et al., 1983; Poston, 1986). The poor performance of salmonids fed certain types of fiber may result from a combination of factors including poor digestion and faster gastric emptying rates, which in turn affect feed intake and utilization of nutrients (Davies, 1988). In natural ingredient diets that contain 3 to 5 percent fiber (derived mainly from plant ingredients), adding fiber is unlikely to have any measurable benefit. In most cases the concern is to formulate diets without excessive fiber content, which may reduce the nutrient intake and increase fecal waste production. To limit environmental pollution from aquaculture waste, an important strategy is to use highly digestible feed ingredients and limit the fiber content of the diet.


Sometimes I think that some people see what they want to see, and obviously anyone can believe what they want to believe, but it seems that in the absence of facts experts abound.


BTW - young/juvenile fish that are still in the growth stage of life should always be feed more often than adults, typically 2-3 times a day due to their higher metabolic rates. Older more mature fish in a maintenance stage of life, with slower metabolisms, can be fed once a day. One meal, broken up into two feedings (AM & PM) is fine as well. The more carnivorous the fish, the less it matters, the more herbivorous the fish, the better it is to feed twice a day. (due to digestion rates)


HTH

::EDIT:: LANGUAGE PLEASE
fish_n_vw

Thank you RD, All has been pointed out to me already and after doing more research I'm more than likely gonna be switching to straight nls. True that my video was a bit premature and more than likely unneccessary . Will be joining the nls cult soon and will definitely be doing more reading in the future. Figure it's about time I start taking some advice lol.

It's not a cult Forrest, so you don't need to resist it like it's one. lol

People feed NLS because of the sound science behind the food, and a couple of decades worth of successful feed trials. One doesn't need to feed NLS to have nice fish, but there are some foods that IMHO should defintely be avoided. All a high fiber food is going to accomplish with most species of fish, is a LOT of nutrients being expelled before they can be absorbed by the fish. Ultimately that waste (solid & liquid) ends up in your fish tank.

I resisted NLS for a long time thinking it was too expensive. When I sat down and figured out price per ounce, wow I had an eye opener. The hikari sinking carnivore and food sticks were almost double in cost compared to the NLS. The NLS was about a quarter more per ounce than the Omega One pellets I had been using. My comment earlier on fish bloating up when feeding certain foods was kind of a big wake up call to change food. I noticed bad effects from both the medium Omega One cichlid pellets and especially the Hikari food sticks. I never had any of the fish swell up from NLS.

RD. wrote: One meal, broken up into two feedings (AM & PM) is fine as well. The more carnivorous the fish, the less it matters, the more herbivorous the fish, the better it is to feed twice a day. (due to digestion rates)


HTH

It helps. Thanks. I'll just keep doing it the way I've been doing it. NLS twice a day.

DMD, another thing that makes the NLS not as expensive as it might seem is that a little goes a long way. You don't need to feed as much as you do a cheaper quality food. I buy the buckets and they last for a very, very long time! I've been feeding my fish pretty much nothing but NLS since 2005.

I just orderd a bucket of nls from kens, its $45, but its 4lbs. Break that down to a by ounce cost. I also needed a few other things so my order was over $100. FREE SHIPPING. Thank you for the info RD. I was unaware of the fiber stuff, but even without the research, logically if your fish are pooing more then the food dosent have as much time to distribute the nutrients in it.

Cost per pound/ounce or whatever can really only be determined by the digestibility of the feed, as in the feed converstion ratio. (FCR) Basically what Betty was stating with regards to feeding some foods less than others, and getting the same or better results in growth & overall health, which in turn also equates to a better bang for your buck.

A fish can only digest & assimilate so much food in any given period of time. Ideally you do not want the input, to exceed the output. This is where not only digestibility, but the FCR (feed conversion ratio) comes into play. FCR is basically the ratio of the gain in the wet body weight of the fish to the amount of feed fed. A true FCR also includes wasted feed and mortalities.

In a properly managed system, where overfeeding doesn't take place, and mortalities are few & far between, the FCR will be low, which is ideal. Overfeeding or underfeeding will increase the FCR, which is not ideal, unless you like wasting your hard earned $$$$.

With some of today's nutrient rich diets many hobbyists tend to overfeed, human nature I suppose (my fish "looks" hungry) when in reality they are wasting food ($$$) and creating an excessive bio load (added pollution) on their system.

This is why i brought this thread over to our forum. Excellent info and discussion. Keep it up everyone, i know that we like to talk about our pets, but one thing this forum could use are great discussions, and getting input and experiences from everyone.

Thanks for dropping in RD, and great input VW and Betty.

Come on all of you other members, i know your checking the thread out, give us your comments and experiences.

Keep it coming.

Thanks D! Lmao