Sand Substrate

Guest 2011-03-10, 00:02

Alright. Here it goes. I have decided to convert my 40 g into a African Mbuna Tank, with sand substrate, rock decor, rock setup, the whole 9 yards... the only problem is that i am going from a blue clown-puke gravel subsrate to this, and i have not the slightest idea how to set up sand in a tank. ive heard it screws up filters, its dirty, you should get silica sand or pool filter sand, not play sand...... i just want some straight facts and help with setting this up, especially there are so many knowlegable African cichlid keepers on this site Smile

Any info is GREATLY appreciated....
Few Questions i have, and please elaborate and give explanations, i really want to do this right!
-can i use ocean sand that has been boiled and cleaned?
-Driftwood?
-how to protect the filter?
-what type of sand?
-what africans?

once again, any info greatly appreciated....

Kaie 2011-03-10, 00:30

I use 100% silica sand from home depot. Its white in color, looks good, pretty clean, heavy, and cheap as hell.

If you were to just throw the sand into the tank full of water, it will most likely ploom up and get sucked up by the filters.

When i put it on the tanks is empty. I put a bunch in a bucket and rinse and strain it for about 5 minutes per load [about 1/4 of a 5 gal bucket]. I then put it into the tank. I go about 1-1.5" you dont really want thicker because it can collect gas pockets. I then fill with water; let it sit for an hour or more. Then i stir up the bottom to get the air pockets out.

Since Mbuna are bigger fish they will probably stir up the sand more than the fish i have. Depending on the type of filter there are a couple options to protect them from sand. Realistically however its small enough to just go in and back out of the filter without any issue. I would just use pre filters on the ends.

You can use driftwood if you want. But Mbuna come from very rocky areas. Im sure theres some logs tossed in there. But in a Mbuna tank youre going to want a higher pH. Wood will fight against your efforts. If its smaller wood you may not even notice.

When i planned out Mbuna i literally just look at BlueGrassAquatics.com in the Malawi section. It helped me choose some that would work for me.

Since your tank is smallerish. I would personally try to get the least aggressive as possible.

also note.. im not an expert.

sidekicking 2011-03-10, 00:42

Dude go with crush coral mix with sand, this way you wont have to use any buffers for the water. also some mbunas like to dig so put your rocks in first and then the substrate so you wont have any accidents. make sure to only keep one species in the tank or else they will interbreed

this Africans are great, but pretty aggressive

pseudotropheus saulosi
pseudotropheus demasoni
Melanochromis auratus

sidekicking 2011-03-10, 00:43

BTW you posted this twice
whats that on purpose??

hbluehunter 2011-03-10, 10:24

Any info is GREATLY appreciated....
Few Questions i have, and please elaborate and give explanations, i really want to do this right!
-can i use ocean sand that has been boiled and cleaned?
Probably could, but i'd stay away from it, loads of bad stuff that can be in there, just think of all the oil spills and boats out there.. Sad

-Driftwood?
Yes.. Lots of guys use it, just make sure you boil it to kill anything bad that might be in it..
-how to protect the filter?
You can buy foam to put over your intake tubes.
-what type of sand?
I bought some sand called "Lapis Luster C1" and love it, it's a heavier sand and doesn't get kicked up as bad as most other sand. I was cleaning sand out of my filters weekly before i switched to this stuff.
-what africans?
I'll let all the african guys answer this one.. Not a pro on africans at all..lol

Hope this helps a little.. Smile

Paintguy 2011-03-10, 12:42

When my haps started getting frisky the male was throwing sand all over the tank. Stopped my HOB filter, so definitely put a filter over the intake tube or it will grind up the impeller.

**Madness** 2011-03-10, 13:28

Lapis luster sand from Manufacturers Mineral Co. ( Address: 1215 Monster Rd. S.W. Renton, WA, 98055 #253-228-2120), sells it in 100lb bags for $17 or less. Use a foam cover on the filter intake. Since you only have a 40gal the 100lbs of sand is more than enough (but cant beat that price). Use about 30-40 lbs of sand and mix 15 lbs of crushed corral in with the sand.

Like others have said, Mbunas are beautiful fish, but are very aggressive and love to dig. Like non stop digging.

My son has two tanks, one has peacocks, the other is a community. A couple Paralabidochromis, yellow blaze, a couple astatotilapia, Neolamprologus, 'Lamprologus' (shellies), calvas, compressisep, clown loaches, and a couple bristle nose plecos.

Just research your fish thoroughly before you buy. And like Kaie said, no on the drift wood. The wood wants to lower the ph, you want it high for the Africans. Decorate with rock and corral pieces. I have both that I could sell you for a good price.

Guest 2011-03-11, 16:50

would like to get play sand, but im not sure if i should. the local harware store has blasting and play, but to order silica (cause they dont normally carry it), it goin to be almost 2$ lb...little past m budget. is play sand bad, or to diffecult to work with?

**Madness** 2011-03-11, 17:04

Did you read my post to this question. Its right above your last one. scratch

Play sand, no not really. Just my opinion.

Manufacturers Mineral Co. ( Address: 1215 Monster Rd. S.W. Renton, WA, 98055 #253-228-2120) has all types of aquarium substrate. The sand I bought was 100lbs for $17, THATS 17cents /lb. If your not going to read our suggestions, stop asking the same questions. silent

Kaie 2011-03-11, 17:46

To be fair. He is 16 and lives in pt Townsend.

**icer711** 2011-03-11, 20:14

JackDempsey wrote:would like to get play sand, but im not sure if i should. the local harware store has blasting and play, but to order silica (cause they dont normally carry it), it goin to be almost 2$ lb...little past m budget. is play sand bad, or to diffecult to work with?

you can get silica sand (lane mountain brown and green bag) at the home depot in silverdale for 100# 7.99 last check ....heck if you want you can come get my extra i got about 100# or so but your going to need a few buckets

TexAveri 2011-03-11, 23:03

I bought my sand from home depot, its just arena sand so it has that bonus of being different colors and sizes. Atleast a bonus for me. it ran me like 5$ for 60lbs. Not sure if there is a home depot in pt. townsend have not been there in a long time. but almost all sands will work. Play sand, Arena Sand, Silica Sand, as long as it is not cement sand or anything but a form of sand, you will be fine. Various types also depend on how much time in cleaning you will do. Like my arena sand it took a bit to clean, and it was still dirty for about 2 days but my tank is cleaner and easier to clean.

Kaie 2011-03-11, 23:05

icer711 wrote:
JackDempsey wrote:would like to get play sand, but im not sure if i should. the local harware store has blasting and play, but to order silica (cause they dont normally carry it), it goin to be almost 2$ lb...little past m budget. is play sand bad, or to diffecult to work with?

you can get silica sand (lane mountain brown and green bag) at the home depot in silverdale for 100# 7.99 last check ....heck if you want you can come get my extra i got about 100# or so but your going to need a few buckets

This is what i got and its clean as hell.. Takes less than 5 minutes to clean prior to putting it in a tank.

**icer711** 2011-03-11, 23:07

Kaie wrote:
icer711 wrote:
JackDempsey wrote:would like to get play sand, but im not sure if i should. the local harware store has blasting and play, but to order silica (cause they dont normally carry it), it goin to be almost 2$ lb...little past m budget. is play sand bad, or to diffecult to work with?

you can get silica sand (lane mountain brown and green bag) at the home depot in silverdale for 100# 7.99 last check ....heck if you want you can come get my extra i got about 100# or so but your going to need a few buckets

This is what i got and its clean as hell.. Takes less than 5 minutes to clean prior to putting it in a tank.

clean lmao .....just dumped it in and filled no rinse needed ....very very clean right out of the bag

Vic 2011-03-12, 00:01

"the local harware store has blasting and play,"

tell me more about the blasting sand they have - what does it say on the bag?

The silica sand they have at home depot is sold as sandblasting sand - maybe yours is the same stuff and you just don't know it. Any way you can snap a pic of the bag - maybe we could let you know.

**icer711** 2011-03-12, 00:03

Vic wrote:"the local harware store has blasting and play,"

tell me more about the blasting sand they have - what does it say on the bag?

The silica sand they have at home depot is sold as sandblasting sand - maybe yours is the same stuff and you just don't know it. Any way you can snap a pic of the bag - maybe we could let you know.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Vic 2011-03-12, 00:05

BTW folks, I agree about being kind. Not everyone drives/has a car, and not everyone lives within easy access of a home depot/lowes. Let's try to be helpful here, and help the member pick the best from their available options - which may be different from your available options. Just saying.

Guest 2011-03-12, 18:03

its alright, i kinda did repeat what i asked... :l port townsend is liike the san juans- there are no big corps like home depot because everyone here is agaisnt them. the city wont allow them. Sequim might have one.... ill see if i can get some pics up. the computers finicky...

**icer711** 2011-03-12, 21:34

hey jack...i have also seen it carried at lumbermans or one of those type that same bag but it was like 12.99 a bag though
if you ever make it down this way you can have some of mine i have lots extra due to a tear down of a tank

Guest 2011-03-15, 10:27

i doubt it- my parents are.....sedentary. and i dont have a car yet.... i heard you can lesson the sand uptake and messyness by covering the sand with a layer of largish pebbles....would that work?

Adonijah 2011-03-15, 18:26

If you have an aquaclear just use one of the attachments to go down in your tank, not both. I even modified my canister(when I used it) so the intake was higher up in the tank. I'd highly suggest doing this if you have sand!

jasson 2011-03-20, 21:32

if you go to fort warden get some sand you will have to rinse it an boil it a few times i got my sand from the dunes in or

Doza 2011-03-21, 15:14

There are 2 routes i would suggest for you keeping in mind of Maintance and Stability with you ph for Mbuna..

You could use Silica Sand The Silica Sand at Home Depot in sequim.. Its right next to the costco. Hard to miss. You wont even use half of the green and brown 100lb bag.. Than i would go to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and pick up 50 pounds of their florida reef rock. I understand this route might be out of your price range but well worth the investment if you are serious in keeping mbuna or other high ph Rift lake fish.. They stack really easy and look great.. If you order let him know that you are wanting rock sized for the size tank you have.

OR

The cheaper route woulde be to use crushed coral as a substrate.. You can get crushed coral at Petco in Sequim and is right next door to Home depot. I think 2 20 pound bags would cover your tank and would run you about $40.. Or you could get away with one bag or crushed coral mixed in with a white silica sand.. Than you can use what eve nice rocks you have. River rock whatever.

Really the florida reef rock looks alot nicer tho. Small holes all threw the rock that fry will use and it provides all sorts of caves and is the lightest rock you can run in your tank for its size.. 3x lighter than river rock the same size.

Sink 2011-04-01, 19:07

I may be a little late to the party...

...but, I always heard using silica was bad for tanks. I know of people using pool filter sand from places like Home Depot. I've always used crushed coral/sugar grade in my tanks. And I not only want to point out that you can use driftwood, I would suggest it...it'll help you balance out the pH changes caused by the sand. Just make sure to soak it, if it's a new piece, for a long time to avoid the tannins changing your water yellow. Yellow water shouldn't affect the livestock, just not that pretty to look at.

2 cents, inserted!

(I wanted to add that silica isn't ideal if it's a fine grain, not because of a chemical issue. I've always been told it's "sharp" and should be avoided)

Doza 2011-04-01, 19:55

And I not only want to point out that you can use driftwood, I would suggest it...it'll help you balance out the pH changes caused by the sand.

I would like to point out that you CAN but i WOULD NOT use driftwood in a MBUNA setup.
Silica Sand is inert and DOSENT affect your PH...
And if you had high ph why would you try to BALANCE the ph.. The whole point is to have a high ph.

There is nothing wrong with using Silica sand and it is inert so it wont affect your ph in any way..
Driftwood should be avoided with mbunas... One of the only ways you could get away with having some driftwood is if you have your tank loaded with crushed coral.. But having driftwood is only going to affect your Ph negatively.

And yes fine sand is not ideal cause it can get into your filters if you arent paying attention to what you are doing.. And the "sharpness" you are refering to is only going to affect bottomfeeders or fish with barbells which you are likely not going to have in a mbuna tank...

The only thing i can see you might have is one of the synodontis catfish species and even then fine silica sand isnt going to matter with them.

**Madness** 2011-04-01, 21:58

As much as it pains me, Violent

I would have to agree with Doza. lol!

JK

Sand, like playground sand, wouldn't advise it. I went with the silica sand and mixed with it the crushed coral. And NO wood. I have wood in my American Cich tanks, and though it looks real nice, I still float bags of coral in my filters just to keep the ph from dropping to low. So, in a Mbuna tank, NO WOOD. I also love loaches, and have several in my tanks w/silica sand. They love it, at least they are always burrowing in it. And my Poly's burrow in it also.

Hang in there Doza, your growing on me. Smile

aaronfeeney 2011-04-02, 01:36

You guys got it ,,, NO WOOD ,,, I used crushed coral, aragonite, and white silica sand mixed for substrait, I also loaded one of the baskets in my Fluval canister with the aragonite, and decorated with stacks of rocks and dead coral.. ph stayed around 8.2 with out all the buffer addatives, I did like to use the african cichlid salts, to keep up the mineral content. The Mbuna also dig in the sand a lot, and you'll see them running it through their gills, I think I read somewhere, that they clean their gills with the rough, fine grain sand.

Doza 2011-04-02, 01:47

I run crushed coral and Dead reef rock for my mbuna.. I have no clue how high my tanks ph would be.. They are like little rabbits tho. Thats for sure.

Anthraxx 2011-04-26, 03:03

pull your intakes a good 6 inches off the substrate. if you are using Hang on back filters ur gonna wanna be cautious as sand getting stuck in the impeller can ruin the filter (doesnt happen often) just turn off the filter whenever ur messing around and stirring things up. wait maybe 20 minutes and then turn it all back on. its easy to deal with. on a side note the silica sand can lead to outbreaks of diatom algae (green carpeting stuff really nasty) just another thing to consider.

Rick 2011-05-07, 01:18

I have a 50gal I'm going to set up for my wife. I'm going to try the homedepot sand and see how it looks.

Thanks Rick

TerenceH 2011-05-07, 11:24

I have a source that can get any color sand you want. I use black in mine is clean almost like sugar or salt. Very fine, it does not leach into the water or anything. My tangs love it. I think he sells it for 50-60 cent a pound. The only issue I have is that it is black so all the poop shows up well.

Gryphon 2011-05-07, 16:10

Madness, happen to have a picture of that Lapis Luster C1 sand?

I'm going to be looking for a source of cheap black sand here in a couple months myself.

TerenceH 2011-05-10, 14:20

I will be getting some black sand shortly. I just picked up an new tank. If you want some let me know.

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