Yet another fish won't eat thread.

[Adonijah]

The three bartoni i have barely eat due to aggression or purely they just don't like what I get but they have a lot of choices. I was thinking of setting up my ten gallon to get them healthy but would reintroducing them cause the same result as this time?

I'm just getting baffled. I've never had a cichlid that doesn't lile the sinking pellets or tetramin crisps. My Africans are freaking hogs compared to these guys right now.

[Adonijah]

Should I just have asked what would you do?

Edit: I couldn't find the third. Here are some crappy pics of them
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[Betty]

Are they new to the tank? Being kept with Africans? Do you see any bullying? I don't know what a bartoni is.

[Adonijah]

H. Bartoni. It's a CA tank. Yes they are new and being bullied. This is the reason I put my Cuban in timeout.

[Madness]

You have bartoni & cuban with Africans? Is the ph around 8.6 or 7.2. Could be that they are stressed out due to the ph. (if up around Otherwise, don't sweat it. Fish have been known to go 2 weeks without eating. I had 4 umbee's that wouldn't eat. I started feeding them blood worms just to get them back into it. They still will not come up and eat when I feed them. They wait and go up and get it when they want to.

I wouldn't sweat it.

Also, I would separate the 2 diff types. Africans on their own and SA on theirs.

[Adonijah]

It is seperate!

[Adonijah]

The the fish in the corner picture died over night last night. Now that he's gone the Cuban cichlid is now also chasing the Bleekeri around and now he's at the top of the tank where as yesterday he was holding his own in his cave.

Is it the Cuban cichlid that's the problem? He's the only fish in the tank that chases fish around the tank instead of chasing for little bit then wandering off. He's like a head hunter lol.


I don't really know what kind of fish that yellow/orange one is. I bought him to be a punching bag and everyone managed to give him a free pass

[Adonijah]

Bloat.

This was day two of treatment. I hope tomorrow shows good results with the bartoni eating again.

[Madness]

Hope so. I lost 9 fish that I got on-line to bloat a couple months ago.

Good luck.

[Adonijah]

I lost my origional one two nights ago. I'm down to the smallest one now. I went through three days of 50% wc with Metro. The fish is hiding, still not really interested in food. I think this medication has made the other fishes appetite decrees

If this one dies I'm sad to say I'm holding off untill I eventually move on from my africans so the future bartoni can have their own 55 gallon.

[Adonijah]

Third and final Bartoni fell today after a wc. =[ Safe to say next time I buy fish I will surely use my ten gallon tank first and introduce them three at a time.

[Madness]

Answer me this. When you do a water change, do you:

Use straight cold water or do you use warm water from faucet?
What type of de-chlorinator do you use?
Do you use carbon in your filters?
What is the ph of the existing tank?
What is the ph of your tap water?
Do you add water directly into the tank or in a bucket first?
How do you add chemicals during water change?
What chemicals do you use?
Do you use aquarium salt?
Do you use epson salt?

Be honest, I am trying to help. I have done tons of research on water and water conditions.

[Adonijah]

I use my finger to get a rough estimate of 78 degrees. I used to use a digi thermometer to pinpoint it but I'd be using too much water out of my tub when doing so.

Prime

Carbon: No, as per advice from APFP (Not Kevin) I put some in to take the meds out because my other fish were hiding due to the chemicals and sure enough they are coming out and showing off more.

PH: 7.6-7.8 I run my African and CA tank with the pH coming out of the tap. No buffers.

I put it in the bucket and add nine drops of Prime per bucket every run, I also mix my salt in this way using the agitation from the water dumping into the bucket.

I add chemicals into the bucket. When I started I used too much Prime. I was told by a friend that Ten drops is enough for a 5 gallon bucket.

I use Aqaurium salt purchased from APFP

I'm not taking offense. Not one bit


I honestly think I just started the Metro treatment way late. And I only did three days worth. Once I stopped the treatment thats when the third fish fell..

[Madness]

Is there any water coming from your hot water tank, or is it strictly cold water that you add?

[Adonijah]

I pull it off of my bathtub so there has to be water being pulled from my water heater.

I think thats what you're asking.

[Madness]

Yes, exactly. Thats your problem. I learned that your hot water tank is a holding pot of water that because of the heating elements and the storage. The water is full of metals. Harmful metals. Zinc, copper,lead, you name it. If you are going to use water from the H2O tank, you need to buy a product that removes all of the metals. Hikari makes a great one, there is a product called rid metals by I believe Kordon. I have used others but these 2 are the best.

I had the city water come to my house and test all my water, before and after I used chemicals.

So, either use straight cold water, or get some good rid-metal.

Good luck.

[Adonijah]

I wish this was common knowledge! Or atleast I haven't heard of that. So a sink would produce the same results? Pft, I just bought a faucet adapter to make the WC on my 75gallon much easier. Crap.

Well when I get into a house I plan to get a 55gallon rubbermaid with a heater and air stone to make water changes easier. I'm not sure if I can pull that off in my apt with out my girl flipping on me for putting that in our sons room haha.

[Madness]

Just go pick up some rid-metals conditioner, and its OK to do straight cold water. As long as your overall temp doesnt drop more than just a few degrees.

[HALP]

Are those 9 fish you lost from the ones we ordered madness? I think they came in with internal parasites. Especially the festae, I noticed alot of white poo.

If you have to battle bloat in the future you can try this. I had a few fish that I thought may be developing bloat and internal parasites and this worked very well. Within a week they all had veracious appetites and no more white stringy poo.

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Treating Hexamita aka Spironucleus with Epsom Salt Solution


This is a rather safe way to treat any newly imported fish, as a prophylactic, just as one would use a de-wormer. It's not only an extremely cheap way to treat fish, the active ingredients are readily available world-wide, and it's also much safer than using most forms of medication. Unlike most medications, there should be no worries about flagellates/pathogens building up a resistance to it, and excess magnesium is easily flushed from a fishes system. In my experience, it's very easy on fish, even very young juvenile fish. The best part - it works! (If the fish has worms when arriving, the epsom salt solution in the feed will also help with purging any worms)

While Metronidazole has always been the drug of choice when combating internal parasites such as hexamita and/or spironucleus, metro (or any other type of medication) should never be used on a regular basis as a prophylactic, and doing so may cause flagellates/parasites to develop a resistance to the medication, and possibly even mutate and become super bugs. It's also been stated by at least one researcher that excessive use of metronidazole can cause organ damage in fish.

Quote:
In fish, an excessive use of metronidazole can damage kidneys and other internal organs.(Bassleer, 1983)
Other cons with metronidazole is its solubility in water is very poor, in aquarium settings it has been suggested that it can precipitate out of solution within 6-8 hours, and it can become rather expensive when treating large systems.

While doing some online research on spironucleus I came across an interesting study that mentioned the use of Magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt) in treating internal parasites in angel fish.
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A long read (200+ pages) but the idea of using something as basic as epsom salt to treat internal parasites in fish intrigued me, which in turn lead me to dig deeper.


This is where it got interesting ........

The Israeli Journal of Aquaculture – Bamidgeh 57(2), 2005, 97-104.

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Quote:
Mortality ceased with application of medicated feed (magnesium sulfate at 3% of the feed) - Hexamita salmonis.
Quote:
In early June 2004, a treatment of magnesium sulfate (3% of feed for three days) lowered the parasite load to almost undetectable levels.

In his book; Fish Disease: diagnosis and treatment, Edward J. Noga mentions treating hexamita (spironucleus) orally with Magnesium sulphate.

This is certainly encouraging news for anyone who's fish is still eating, or begins eating after treatment with Metro. Not only does Epsom salt assist in recovery when added directly to the aquarium (as per the links above), but according to the research posted above it has a deadly effect on hexamita when ingested.

Dr. Edward J. Noga, MS, DVM, is a highly respected professor of aquatic medicine and immunology, and he has been published approx. 150 times in related papers/journals. His lab at NC State University specializes in the study of infectious diseases of finfish and shellfish. As a side note for Discus keepers, Dr. Noga's book on fish disease is the book that Andrew Soh often refers to for disease/treatment information.


Now for the treatment ......


For a 3% solution of Magnesium sulphate, add 1 level tablespoon (15 grams) magnesium sulphate to 500 milliliters of distilled water. Stir, and it's good to go.

Use an eye dropper or pipette to add to pellet food (or any other food that will readily absorb it), and stop dripping water once the pellets become saturated. Use only enough water to saturate the food, with no excess water, so that the water soluble vitamins in the food remain intact. Feed twice a day, for 3-5 days. (I went with 5 days)

In extreme cases, the oral solution could be administered to a fish via a pipette.Just make sure to use a flexible tip so as not to damage the fishes esophagus when squirting the solution down the fishes throat. Only a small amount is required, but repeat daily until the fish is accepting pre-soaked pellets, and continue treatment for 5 days.


My own experience with this treatment ........ so far it's proven to be a life saver, where all other previous 'textbook' methods of treatment for internal parasites have failed, including several days of treating with 500mg Metro per 10 gallons, while feeding Metro soaked food at the same time. (fish was chewing & spitting, but was eating some food twice a day)

In less than 48 hrs of the 3% Magnesium sulphate treatment, for the first time in 30 days the fish was no longer shedding the mucous lining of his intestine. (white/clear feces) After 5 days of feeding the 3% solution via pellets, the fish had made a complete recovery & was back eating like gang busters.

Hopefully some members here will find this information useful.

Neil

[Madness]

Yes, all 9 were from that order. I have been using epson salts for a while now. The idea of soaking the food is a good one. I will do that from now on.

Good info.

[Adonijah]

Thank you for the information!

Is Aquarium salt the same thing as Epson salt?

I'm gonna try this with my remaining fish beause damn near all of them has stringy white poop.

[Madness]

NO. Epson salt is for soaking your body in, or its used for humans to help with digestive issues. It is found at your local drug store or supermarket in the meds isle.

[Adonijah]

Ah! You sir are the shiz. Thanks for putting in the time, real deal I do appreciate it.

[Madness]

Anytime. It is always nice to know someone or a few people that can help. I am no expert, but have spent plenty of time researching. I've had 2 back surgeries since Sept 09', and have still not been cleared to work. So I spend a lot of time learning and taking care of my pets.

I cant stand to see individuals just neglect their pets cause they are to stupid to ask for help. So anytime you need help, or just have a question, feel free to ask anytime.

[Adonijah]

I always ask. I figure people might be getting annoyed of my threads. *due to lack of response*.

But I figure this place needs more and more information.

Now when I do my WC on my little ten gallon I run cold water into a 5 gal bucket and heat it up with a heater. I just wish it were that convenient to do on the larger tanks lol

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