Deal or no Deal on Frontosa ??

Ok, well yesterday i hit up a few lfs and found what i thought was agood or decent deal.. I've never kept Africans and i know a bunch of the people on this site do.. So here's what i found, they are Cyphotilapia Frontosa Mpimbwe, they're all over 6" and the male being bigger. He has them listed at $175 for 1m2f.. My question is this a good deal ?? I've never bought Frontosa before so i have no idea what's a good or bad deal. If it's a good deal i might go back and grab them to add to my Geo's.
Thanks..

Average according to the prices I'm used to in the north end. If you can go smaller then try Pet Purri. They have them dirt cheap for 2-3 inches.

These are at PP actually, these are Jesse's personal fish.. I can't get small ones due to the big fish in my tank would eat them like a snack.. These are really nice fish and i've always wanted to get some fronts..

If they are all 6" and over, i say it is a FAIR deal, not a great deal. I've bought LFS retail prices of a 6 inch WC Front for $50 (too bad buttikoferi killed it).

What's the breeding generation? F1 F2 WC ?

Gotta remember, Fronts grow between 1-3 inches a yr. So a 6 incher is at least a few yrs old.

WC @ 6" would be $150 or so *each*.

I guess I was lucky !

I wouldn't touch 'em unless its a breeding project. I couldn't get rid of mine for the life of me. finally gone now... Frontosas look nice but have no personality at all... boring fish! I'll tell you this, you will have a hard time finding someone to buy 3 for $150. Most people who want breeders want 6-7 of them, and they want them for $200-250, anymore than that, they want Wild Caughts, your ratio of 1M/2F, always get 2 Males, Females are easier to come by. my2cents.

I forgot to throw in there that they're F1 and not breeding yet.. So is $175 too much for 3 F1's that aren't breeding ??

It's not too much but I'd say vent them as you can't tell the sex just by size...Just to be safe. That way you don't end up with a bad ratio. If you do have the right ratio they'll breed over time.

He said he was gonna vent them today and tell me what was male and female out of the group.. So what is the best group ?? 1m2f , 2m3f or what ??

You only need 1 male. The more females the better.

quads, 2 males and 2 females.... will always ensure you'll have 1 breeding pair, house the Beta male elsewhere, only use him when needed... regardless, of the perfect ratio, you'll want more females to constantly breed them. 5 females are best..... 2M/5F is a good ratio.

You are screwed if you only have 1 male. if he gets sick or worst case scenario.... good luck.

If you are thinking of breeding, try to get some MOBAS....

I agree 2m 5f is the way to go. What size tank?

If i get them they'll go into my 300.. He still hasn't vented them when i called so not sure what his ratio is.. He has 5 of them so hopefully he has more than 2 females so i can get a decent group. Hopefully i can breed them if i grab them.

Keep in mind, the geos and africans want opposite water conditions. While the fronts look cool. I probably would never own some either.

As for a deal, you could very easily pay 250, for a group of 8 fish or so if you shop around, they do best in a colony, not as trios.. And when people need to rehome that is roughly the price on them assuming they're not WC.

Yea I got some really good info from sonnys503.. I didn't realize the huge difference in water conditions and also how this wasn't as good a deal as I thought it was.. Looks like I'm gonna have to pass on this one.

Frontosa are one of my favorite fish.... they are really expensive when you get them that large.... if you really want frontosa, I personally would get a bunch of fry from "me" on here, he sells his f-1 mpimbwe for like 10 each.... then you can grow them out and enjoy them! Or any other local breeder.... Oh yeah! Get some on the group buy, he has some beauties in there for like 6 or 7 a piece I think!!! you can get allot of them for 170 bucks.

I would love to get some small ones to grow out but my big problem is I only have my one 300 right now and there are large fish in there that would eat any small fronts.. I have a couple small tanks but nothing near big enough to grow out some fronts.. We'll see what happens, I'll have to work on the wife for awhile to get her to allow another tank in the house..

fronts dont do really well with other fish anyway, they are super shy.... for being an african cichlid they arent hardly aggressive at all.

If you buy from an importer they are usually between $60 and $90 each.

You really only need a 40 breeder to grow a group of fronts to 4", though it's pushing it past that. I am guessing you have some giant fish that would gobble up a 4" front though. I've gotta disagree with Sonny on them being boring. They are definitely not hyper active like Mbuna or tropheus, but they are very inquisitive and will eat right from your hand. Especially Mpimbwe. Frontosa are more about grace and beauty than frantic in your face activity. Don't get me wrong I love Mbuna and tropheus too. But Frontosa are in a league of their own. When a large male is in full dress color few fish compare.

You're right about the large fish.. I have a 30" Black Arowana in this tank so he is my major worry, but then again I have geo's in this tank and some are around 4" so I really just need to find some in the 4" range.. I just wanted to add the fronts to add some more color to the tank.

Sad, I just sold ,my last 3 4" fronts. I should start another grow out tank for larger fry I guess.

Good luck with your quest if you want some WC, I can direct you to the better importers

I'll take wc too, but do they just import small ones or do they sell any with some size to them??

WC frontosa pricing is through the roof, unless you go with some of the less reputable suppliers. I was going to go with WC anyway, even had the wife's support for doing so. But a long conversation with Me steered me in the direction of F1 for better wet pets - I'd totally go WC if I was looking to do significant breeding, but not for my show tank.

WC usually come in between 5 and 7 inches, my first 3 orders averaged 6 to 7 inches with a few breaking the 9" mark. This last year there have been these so called sm wc coming in at 4". I suspect these are either from lakeside pond breeding, or F1 stripped from WC by the exporter or importer and power fed for 6 months. The other possibility is that they fished our their spots, but I really don't think this is the case as the amount of Frontosa imported VS the amount in the lake is very small.

If you chose to go with WC ask what the size of the actual fish you will receive are. It's ok to say they are too small, and tell them the sizes you are looking for, AFTER you make a deal on sizes tell them you will be standing by with a measuring stick and any fish undersized will be refused. Many importers will be rude, but you unfortunately just have to be rude right back if this happens. Ask for pics of the actual fish, and even the actual group you will be getting. Pressure them, don't let them pressure you.

Here is a list of the top importers from mine and others experiences. The first one is Joefish from frontosa.com and he is my top pick by a long shot!

off the hook aquatics VERY EASY TO DEAL WITH, NO HUSTLE NEEDED JUST TELL HIM ME FROM FRONTOSA.COM SENT YA!

atlantis fish hatchery

blue chip aquatics (would be number 2, but I've heard two recent stories of him selling tanzanians as Zaire)

neptune aquatics (a bit pricey but good quality)

mosta frontosa ( a bit pricey but very good quality)

Thanks for all the info, i'll have to check them out.. I'm a new member on Cypos.com but haven't been on Frontosa.com yet, i'll check that out too. I'm still not sure if i want F1 or WC, alot of people have told me F1 is a better way to go if i'm not looking for breeding high quality fish for $$$, plus if WC Fronts are anything like my WC Rays in the past they're kind of a pain to get eating, and when they do eat they're picky eaters.. Not to mention the long QT process with all the meds to ensure they don't bring any un-wanted parasites into my tank.

Actually my original message mentioned that but I lost it. In short F1 will usually look better and more blue than wild caught because you can control diet and they are well nourished from fry to adult. Also you don't have to worry about parasites which can be present with WC, and they will tend to be much more tame.

Truthfully I would have preferred F1, except I love to breed every fish I keep, and I learned that F1 are the gold standard for all frontosa except Kigoma and Burundi types. It's a bit silly since F2 fish can be every bit as genetically diverse if done right.

Thanks.. I think i'll stick with searching for F1's then.

I'd suggest hitting frontosa.com and cyphos.com and checking and the species variants/collection points. I looked for over a year before I bought last month to make sure I knew exactly what I wanted. Talked to several of the breeders on those forums as well, and became completely convinced that I would buy from one of them - so much knowledge, experience, and a passion for raising quality fish.

You'll find breeders who can supply quality F1 of most anything you'll find - and if you happened to settle on mpimbwe, Me has exactly what you're looking for. Spyral can tell you about his first-hand experience with the colony from his 180g that was bred by Me.

I've actually been checking out both site you suggested, and a few others also.. I'm working on a possible deal on some now..

me wrote:If you buy from an importer they are usually between $60 and $90 each.

You really only need a 40 breeder to grow a group of fronts to 4", though it's pushing it past that. I am guessing you have some giant fish that would gobble up a 4" front though. I've gotta disagree with Sonny on them being boring. They are definitely not hyper active like Mbuna or tropheus, but they are very inquisitive and will eat right from your hand. Especially Mpimbwe. Frontosa are more about grace and beauty than frantic in your face activity. Don't get me wrong I love Mbuna and tropheus too. But Frontosa are in a league of their own. When a large male is in full dress color few fish compare.

Jessee @ pet pouri s 4 f 1 females ended up in my group of 11 mpimbwe,my 7 are wild caught from blue chip aquatics ,

im happy they ended up here with their own kind, to me these are a special fish that takes a patient fish keeper to care for them,its my opinion and only an opinion that they need to be with their own kind only ,they are not the average cichlid,

if a person is interested i can get farm raised burundi,mpimbwe and red/ brown frontosa in a veriety of sizes ,and in any sized group.

today i stripped 50 eggs from a wild caught female , i really love these fish

peace

today i stripped 50 eggs from a wild caught female , i really love these fish

haha she finely stopped jerking you around?

Kaosu wrote:

today i stripped 50 eggs from a wild caught female , i really love these fish

haha she finely stopped jerking you around?

oh hi friend,no that turkey is still faking ,i looked again after you left ,

my dominant male and female spawned around 7 pm i watched them ,its cool catching them in the act,

let me know when your ready for the boy convict ,

Glad they went to a good home, and with other mpimbwe.. I was kinda bunned when i went in to grab them and they were gone.. That's ok i'm working on setting up another tank for some grow outs.