Question-Possible to base 72g bow on a single Cyrtocara moorii?

So I really want to change out my 72g bowfront and I have been threatening to do Africans for a while now...   

One of my all time favorite Africans is the Blue Dolphin (Cyrtocara moorii). Most things Ive read suggest a male and some female companions but I dont want to breed them and they get large enough to need a sizable tank. But I feel could keep one solo in the 72g bowfront as the primary fish and then add a couple smaller cichlids with it and maybe a syno cat or two.

So is it possible just to keep one of these cichlids in there? What stock would you recommend to go with it?

I've seen all male African cichlid tanks work well. And just stick with their geographic region for tank mates. When they have found a female in the group, rehomed and add males again. Lovely think about african's is most like to be over stocked. You could fit quite a few in that 72!

There are a small handful of Africans I like but not sure of this, can you or should you mix lakes?

I also like Altolamprologus calvus, Altolamprologus compressiceps....

the moori aka blue dolphin takes quite a long time to grow, (took my group 3+ years to get 4-5'') so that will allow you some leeway when you find one, as with anything african they prefer to be in groups and mingle within their own species. you could easily just get maybe a trio and rehome anybody who isnt friendly. as for fish to pair it with anything that remains under the 5'' mark should work out. calvus as you have suggested again take a very long time to get size so it may work in your favor. the real question is why not give tangs a shot and just have a moori in with em? who cares whats in there if you like it right? as for the catfish, they really need a good sized group to be a visible addition to your tank. id say 5-6 is a good number (but also pricey as they arent readily bred much) maybe a nice tang rock dweller then some catfish and your moori and maybe a random calvus? your options are really open here just feel free to msg me anytime you have a question. betty and cichlid gal are also great options for this type of info. GL to ya D, welcome to the dark side!!!   

I have dated someone who had a random mixed African tank as well as a previous roommate that did the same. Both their tanks went well. Not that you should I thi k some require different pH. But the option is there. Crayfish on the other hand are illegal in Washington I found out

also on a side note, ive kept tangs with malawi, vic's with malawi.. malawi with malawi, it all tends to work out so long as habitat and diet needs are met. as with anything theres plenty of room to negotiate. also ive never worried about ph, it seems to do more harm then good playing with the ph from my experience.

Thanks Anthraxx, its a whole different thing on the dark side... lots of things to learn. I kind of like the peacocks also but sadly the hybrids are the ones I like the most.

Nothing wrong with liking the hybrids. Just if you breed mark them as such or just have males and no worries of breeding

Anthraxx wrote:also on a side note, ive kept tangs with malawi, vic's with malawi.. malawi with malawi, it all tends to work out so long as habitat and diet needs are met. as with anything theres plenty of room to negotiate. also ive never worried about ph, it seems to do more harm then good playing with the ph from my experience.

I have found, when mixing cichlids, it is more about exactly what Anthraxx is saying...water parameters (i.e. if they want hard water then do all hard water lovers), diet (moori are carnivores I think...so that will limit your choices unless you plan to feed for both carnivores and omnivores or herbivores...alot of mbuna are actually herbivores or omnivores...but alot of haps are carnivores), and finally, habitat.  72G bowfront, I've had one, is a great and beautiful tank but only gives you so much room for setting up habitats.  

Spend some time reading up on the species you like, spend some time on the Cichlid-Forum looking at other fish and what might work...and maybe even ask the questions there.  There are so many knowledgable folks on that forum, having kept so many different types of fish, that you might get the answers you are looking for.

I haven't kept moori so alot of what I share is just from readings that I have done and general cichlid info that I have.  Good luck with your setup and keep up informed of how things go.  The great things about cichlids is that NOTHING is set in stone other than the fact that you MAY encounter aggression or illness from aggression is you set things up wrong.  

I have stocked haps, with mbuna, with Vics and everyone has been hunky dory.  You never know till you try.

OH...and here is a site that lists fish by location in the lake(s)...is you find a fish you like, I have found that finding fish from the same location(s) in the lake(s) works really well.  I have a "LIONS COVE" tank with fish from that region of the lake.  They got along great.  Moori come from all over the Lake so it's hard to find a "location" but maybe in your travels you will find a fish from a particular region that you like.  So this is a good site to look around on but it is lacking in areas other than mbuna...


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Thanks for the link! That will help me with my research. It took me over a year before I got my puffer so I know I wont rush it. I do have some fish that I really am interested in and it seems they may be able to work together.   

Ok so the more I research the more I dislike the whole idea of this. Why do all the fish need to be in colonies? I am finding this to be the thing that Im not liking. Most of what I am looking at would be one of this and one of that and no groups at all.

I have seen many of tanks that do one of this and one of that and work perfectly fine. Just a well balanced diet need to be fed is all On occasion throwing the you should's out the window will still make things work fine.

Could always try it out and if you're not happy with it rehome fish and start over with another idea. African cichlids are widely sought after. Shouldn't be too hard to find new homes. I like how you can add the different colors and looks while having good activity in the tank as well.

Well the other issue is tank size, everything I like also gets BIG.

I like the Blue Dolphin, Malawi eye biter, Malawi Trout Cichlid, Frontosa....

Its bad enough I have my big tank for my Central American cichlids but now I feel I need another to start an African tank!

This set up (75 gallon) housed about 15-20 random cichlids all from different lakes. All fine and peaceful.

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Some of the random cichlids. Peacock, yellow lab, red zebra, and the Victorian is a christmas fulu
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Some more of the tank inhabitants:
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So I did a bit of reading and a single Frontosa could work in my tank. I could see that as a possibility. Do they have any sort of personality?

I've never been around a frontosa but I remember "Me" who was on here loved them. As well do many people. I wonder who would have some insight on frontosa's?

DMD, I don't think you are going to find the type of personality that you are looking for with African cichlids.  They have some interesting behavior and some will let you touch them or they might bite you; they do have their personalities, but they probably won't interact with you like a pet.  I like to sit and watch mine interacting with each other.  It's definitely not relaxing to watch the chasing, though!

The fish don't have to be kept in colonies, but it's not a good idea to have only a few fish in the tank.  More fish helps spread aggression. You can keep some single fish along with a couple of groups of other species.  I used to keep a male eye biter, a male polystigma and a male fryeri with groups of acei and rusties.  If you don't want to deal with breeding and raising fry when keeping groups, just let the females spit in the tank.  Some people are successful with all male tanks if you'd rather have all different species.

P.S. I know nothing about frontosa behavior!

Thanks Betty! I guess I am looking for a bit of personality in my wet pet. I love the hump heads in the Blue Dolphin and Frontosa, they are awesome looking. I also really like the shape and look of the calvus and compressiceps but just wished they were like an 8-10" fish. My current tank is just growouts and some rainbows so not really a whole lot of interaction. Likely the same I would receive with a tank full of smaller Africans. They do come front and center for feeding.

DMD,

I'd agree with Betty in that they're not really a "wet pet" personality, but I love watching my 3 groups of Mbuna in a 75G.  They're a bit like watching the gorilla or monkey exhibits at the zoo.  Definite interaction and body language, and what appears to be a pretty complex hierarchy and social interaction.  They're always busy excavating sand and while they don't school, they're constantly moving and cruising in and out of the rocks and caves (and holes they've dug under the rocks).  

I wonder if you'd like a Tanganyikan community tank in that bowfront?  I'm considering one for a 40B that I have in the garage for a summer project.  Cichlid forum also has a nice Tang section.  User "Razzo" there is probably the most knowledgeable on Frontosa (though I suspect he'll tell you that they like colonies and aren't suitable for your 72G).  I'd consider putting two rockpiles in that tank, separated by a sand bed with escargot shells, then put 6 Calvus or comps (one rockdweller), 6 Julies or Caudopunctatus (second rockdweller) and then 6 Neolamprologus Multifascitus (multies) or Lamprologus Occelatus (shelldwellers).  Cyprichromis would be the top dwelling dither from the Lake, but they're crazy expensive and hard to come by (and sort of look like your rainbows, I guess).  Using rainbows or danios as a non-Lake T dither is often suggested, as long as the water parameters match.  

The real point seems to be that the Tang fish seem to have lots of character, though admittedly mostly with each other.  Seems like you might have the wet pet covered with your pearsei and with Scruffy.  Maybe it won't scratch the itch, but it would be a nice complement to your other tanks, imho.  

P.S.  If you've not already done it, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is a pretty solid community.  A much broader set of experienced moderators than what you find on the puffer forum, but a lot of thoughtful and like minded fish keeper mods who will happily engage and help you sort out any questions you might have, though like usual, we might not always like or agree with the answers, ymmv! Good luck, and I'll definitely be watching with interest to see what you put in that bowfront!

Thanks hose91! like Ive said Im not quick to change out and do a ton of research before any change happens. I do appreciate the info and link.

You bet. I'm on the puffer research track that you took, and I appreciate the time and effort you put into that tank and setup for Scruffy. I feel like I did that sort of due dilligence in setting up and stocking my Mbuna tank. I like the African "colony" style of fish keeping, and although I appreciate the big CA/SA fish, that wouldn't be my thing (at least not currently), but that seems to be the beauty of this particular hobby. The flexibiilty to be a lot of different things depending on what you keep and how you keep it, and the ability to add and/or change what you do certainly makes it interesting and keeps it fresh!

hose91 wrote:I'm on the puffer research track that you took, and I appreciate the time and effort you put into that tank and setup for Scruffy.

Any ideas what you are interested in? I would love a Fahaka but dont have any spare 120+ gallon tanks right now...   

So, great question.  I have a 40B and a 20L that I have permission to put in our living room, so I'm planning on building a dual tank stand out of hardwood.  I would like a puffer tank and a Tanganynikan tank, so the options are many and varied since both kinds of fish can fit into either tank.  On the puffer side, Ideally I'd like to house 2 or 3 smaller (2-4") with something else.  I KNOW there are NO community puffers, but it does seem to be possible.  Problem is that I think DP's are too small, F8's seem about right but are brackish (so plants and WC's are harder), and GSP's are full marine.  SAPs might fit the bill, but aren't true tetraodons (and I think have more teeth issues?).  Plus, I am not sure what all is available.  I had full intentions of seeking you out when I was a little closer to getting the tanks set up and picking your brain.  I liked the video of your hairy, and I could see keeping a solo in either the 20L or the 40B, although as discussed earlier, I tend towards liking groups of fish that will occasionally interact or are just fun to watch. As you can see from my avatar, I have the large pet thing already covered. He is not technically a wet pet, unless you count the ever present drool! The Tang community likewise can be adjusted to fit into either tank.  I'm in Kitsap, so don't get to the LFS's very often, but have been to the Fish Store, Sierra-Renton, and Denny's in the last couple of months (though not always looking at puffers).  I did the Wet Spot back in april, before I had the puffer itch.  I get their weekly update though, and always look through their online list on Fridays or Saturday ( that's where I got my 33 Mbuna and 5 Syno Petricolas).  Would love to hear your thoughts on other species, availability, and anything else you learned or are learning.

GSP's can be full marine but do better at brackish water levels.

I went with a lurker type puffer due to the fact they are mostly piscivores and pretty much dont have to worry much about the overgrown teeth thing as much. Most in fact may not even eat snails. The ones I researched were the Hairy, Congo, Arrowhead and Dragon (or Humpback). They are all pretty similar in care and behavior. The Congo and arrowheads tend to bury themselves so you really never 'see' them. The Humpback has a cool pattern but tends to hide a lot. So that kind of left the Hairy as the best choice. I dont use sand so it does not bury itself. It sits out in the open even though I have provided it caves.

As to finding them, well APFP in Burien has a Congo but one of the bland tan color ones. If it were the bright red, I might have changed my mind. I ended up just ordering mine from The wet Spot. It was $70 and $20 for shipping. I asked for the 'hairiest' one they had and I was happy with the one I was sent. He is pretty hairy looking.

Another thing Ive considered, on the topic of my 72g, is to deck it out as a big hairy puffer home...

I've been on Cichlid-Forum since 2005. I can't believe it's been that long.   There are a lot of good articles in the library there. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

DMD, I haven't given up hope that you will keep Africans one day!   But it's good that you are researching thoroughly.

Betty wrote:DMD, I haven't given up hope that you will keep Africans one day!   But it's good that you are researching thoroughly.  

Confession time, I had some when I raised fish as a teenager. I just raised them for a little while and then ended up taking them back to the fish store when they got a bit bigger. I did not keep them that long so I never really had the full experience. I think I had a few mumba and I know I had a brichardi. I actually took in a little blue dolphin that had its tail shredded and nursed it back to health and took it back to the store.

I was always more interested in the centrals so I never really pursued the Africans.   

i know you guys love your big fish, but let me tell you nothing gave me more enjoyment then watching what i called "Shells of our lives". the dramas and interactions between the super tiny little guys was always hilarious. and i guarantee they have more spunk then even some of your monster wet pets. what im trying to get at is that africans can be great with only one, but its sooo much more interesting watching them develope their own relationships. its the group as a whole that interests me and not so much one individual fish, (but yes i do have a favorite of course! )

          

        

So this topic is on hold for a little while. Im not changing out the stock in this tank for a bit.