Problems with Canister filter

Howdy all. I recently acquired a couple of used Marineland C-360 canister filters. $25 each I couldn't really say no. However, there is a problem, I can't seem to get one to stop pulling in air. It's not leaking water, but somewhere actually in the canister, and before the impeller, it's pulling in air...constantly. I can hear bubbles hitting the impeller every couple seconds and there is a bust of fine bubbles up the output tube following each. I've taken this thing about as apart as it was ever meant to go and cleaned and silicone greased every connection I can find. I don't believe the seller duped me, but these had been sitting unused for a good long while.

Anybody else ever encounter this or something similar?

Some canisters (like my Rena XP1) need to be burped to get all of the air out; this is a potentially messy process that involves partially opening the filter while it's running which allows the filter to completely fill, expelling the excess air.  If water squirts everywhere then you did it wrong...  

This may or may not be your issue... I also get this problem when the intake is constricted (like a clogged pre-filter).

If pbmax is right, you might try tilting the canister side-to-side vigorously a couple times to shake things up in there.

I ran a C-220 on a 55g years ago and I'm familiar with "burping" the filter. I assumed that was it was last night so I shook, tilted and tapped the filter but it just seemed to keep coming. It was still doing the same this morning. I'm positive I've gotten all air out opening the system. I suspect the problem lies in the priming pump. It was stuck down when I got it and I was able to get it freed up but now it doesn't exactly prime correctly. I'm considering bypassing it somehow and seeing what happens.

I see my phantom hater is still around... would he/she/it care to explain why that post deserves a red vote?  My xp1 really does need to be burped upon being refilled (no priming capability built in, it never fills completely, and shaking doesn't cut it) and a constricted intake really does cause bubbles in the filter.

Ok, my anger lead me to say "screw it" and I figured out how to rebuild the priming pump. It works again which is nice and all but I still have the bubbles. It's not an insignificant amount of air I'm really confused as to where it could be pulling in this much air. Video coming soon. I tried loosening the lid while running, didn't do much. So I tried cracking the seal and purging water while running and seemed to work, for about 5 seconds . I am really stumped by this thing. I'm starting to wonder if there is a small crack or something in it. What confuses me is how it can be taking in air but not leaking water?

No water leaking means any potential leaks are along the intake path (negative pressure). It's much easier to suck air than water, so any leaks would pull in bubbles while the filter was operating.

Fair enough...The next culprit is the ball valve coupling I guess, or it could still be the priming pump...

I suppose you could try some sort of air-tight tape around the priming button? I'm not sure how realistic that is....  

You could try some teflon tape on the coupling maybe?

My XP1 drove me nuts for a couple of weeks before I learned the right process to fix the bubbles... I understand your frustration.

You could try emptying it, closing the output ball valve, and blowing into the intake. It won't be particularly tasty, but a bit of extra (clean!) hose lying around may help. A little soapy water applied around the seals should help locate any leaks, or you could just listen for the hiss.

Just throwing ideas out here. And thanks for the green, whoever bestowed it upon me.   

That's a good idea. I'll try that and see what I get. Googled the problem and it seems to be a common fault of these filters. Sounds like a gasket kit and a new valve block should resolve it if I'm unable to rebuild it.

I would contact Marineland and ask them. They are a pretty nice company, they may offer something.... you never know. Doesn't hurt to ask.

I will be contacting Marineland. Seeing as these filters are used and Lord know how old I don't imagine I'll get much for free, but you don't know if you don't ask. I'll scalp some parts out of the other filter and see if I can get one good one put together, but really I imagine I'll order a gasket kit and a new valve block. I imagine about $30 after shipping. If that sorts it out I'll still only be $55 into it, not bad.

pbmax wrote:I see my phantom hater is still around... would he/she/it care to explain why that post deserves a red vote?  My xp1 really does need to be burped upon being refilled (no priming capability built in, it never fills completely, and shaking doesn't cut it) and a constricted intake really does cause bubbles in the filter.

This may have been a mistake. On my mobile I sometimes hit a + or - by mistake. Usually its the plus sign though. When I hit the minus , I come back later and hit the + out of guilt, lol! (I wasn't the one in the caee though, ha)

This is an interesting situation. I like the soapy water solution. I hope it works. Its gotta be sucking air through a small crack or a failing seal. I dont have much experience with canisters. The one I have, the hard lines that go into the tank have O rings. I notice they get bound up if I am not careful. Your issue can't be that simple... You say you have 2 though. Maybe the one you are having issues is missing something? Like a O ring, seal, IDK.... You could dissemble the other and compair? The top inside of my canister there is an airline that sucks out air and injects it directly into the water return line before it can get to the pump. If your canister has this maybe plugged or failing some how?

The valve block on the Marineland C series filters have two O rings for in and out. All four are in place and intact on this one and lubricated with the proper silicone grease. What I started noticing was that If I had the swivel for the hose positioned just right the bubbles seemed to cease, if only for a couple minutes. I'm curious if the other valve block is in any better shape. I was disappointed to see the valve block was not serviceable. Almost every other part of this filter is.

I really enjoyed my C-220, but I was the first owner and maintained it very well. It's obvious the previous owner of these wasn't all that into maintenance.

Dang!

I wonder if you let it dry out for a few days and then totally goop'd around both hose swivels with silicone if that would solve the problem?  It wouldn't be pretty... but who cares, if it stops the bubbles.

I somewhat tried this, but that is basically my next move. My other valve block is doing the same thing.

PROGRESS!  Check this out.  Once again frustration has yielded results.  This isn't a good omen moving forward.  Funny what you can get done if when you break down and pull just a little bit harder.  I'll get this rebuilt and siliconed up and see what happens.

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I found two more O rings in the port for the valve actuators, bottom left and right assemblies in the areas pointing at the middle lever.

Talk about frustrating.  Still leaking in air.  I'm going to try to rebuild the other valve block and see if using a touch more silicone will help....

Looks like from the pictures you could also epoxy those solid. That'll take care of those leaky seals

anderson_p_r wrote: I'm going to try to rebuild the other valve block and see if using a touch more silicone will help....

Don't be shy with the silicone - it's cheap and the more the merrier.   

So I rebuilt the other one with all new o rings and a healthy amount of silicone....no change...still draws in air. I'm stumped. Just going to have to wait for Marineland to get back to me I think. This is really bizarre.

Ok, I siliconed the bejesus out of one valve block. So much silicone that when the joints are pushed together it squeezes out, aka way more than should be necessary, and it still sucks in air. I wonder if it's something else, but I don't really know.

That would annoy the heck out of me, did Marineland ever get back to you?

I expect to hear from them early next week. I actually just finished rebuilding the second power head and it's been running a good couple minutes no bubbles. I rebuilt the priming pump differently on this one, makes me wonder if it was the problem all along. For now I'm happy to think I have a victory on my hands and will call it a night. Tomorrow I'll try giving the other power head the same treatment and see what I get.

That's good news; fingers crossed!   

Came into my shop this morning and the filter was still running smooth and silent. Hurrah! I'll tackle the other motor head now and take some pics of the offending piece.

Yay!!

Nicely done.   

anderson_p_r wrote:I expect to hear from them early next week. I actually just finished rebuilding the second power head and it's been running a good couple minutes no bubbles. I rebuilt the priming pump differently on this one, makes me wonder if it was the problem all along. For now I'm happy to think I have a victory on my hands and will call it a night. Tomorrow I'll try giving the other power head the same treatment and see what I get.

Hi anderson_p_r,

Problems in the area of the priming pump were exactly the problems I had with units built 4-5 years ago and why my units and/or motor units were replaced....congrats on the repair.

No joy on the other motor head, still pulls bubbles. The good one has started to occasionally draw bubbles, so we'll see how that goes. If Marineland can't help me I'm considering bypassing/plugging the priming pump all together. I'd rather prime them manually than deal with this crap.

Indeed; manual priming isn't too bad.

I got around to disabling the priming pump and it seems to have cured the bubbles. I might do the same to the other filter so that both are in the same configuration.

Finally....

Hooray! Nicely done.

I thought I had these all figured out but apparently not. I went to fiddle with the problematic one and use the good one as "control" and found the same problem has come back in the "good" one. My last resort is going to be to caulk up priming pump and hope that fixes it for good.

I'm imagining a canister filter with a giant mound of silicone covering the top of it. WIN!   

It's getting close to that. I did realize I was using the non rebuilt valve block on the "good" canister. I've switched that up now and I'll see if all the "good" parts put together gives the result I'm looking for. Anyone else want a bum C-360 to fiddle with, I'm about done with it