Cold water fish options

**MRTom** 2013-11-04, 19:03

Since we're in the PNW, and keeping my room in the 60's is much easier than keeping a room at 75 or above, I've been looking at keeping fish that would be more friendly to the lower temps. Here's a few that I've found. Do you guys have any other recommendations I could consider? Most of these are small (with malabaricus reaching about 3 inches), so I would love to find a few larger options too!

Chilly fish: Prefer colder, low max temps
White Cloud (tanichthys albonubes): 57 to 72F
Medaka (oryzias latipes): 60 to 72F

Cooler fish: Colder, with a wide temp range
Guppy (poecilia reticulate): 62 to 82.4F
Zebra danio (danio rerio): 64 to 77F
Gold ring danio (danio tinwini): 64 to 79F
Giant danio (devario malabaricus): 64 to 77F

Coldish fish: 68F and above
Clown killifish (epiplatys annulatus): 68 to 79F
Hillstream loach (sewellia lineolata): 68 to 75F
Ember tetra (Hyphessobrycon amandae): 68 to 82F
Cherry barb (Puntius titteya): 68 to 80F

(temps converted from C at SF)

My dream: a room in the basement without a single heater in sight, with species tanks for all of these guys... I love you

Edit: Added chart

**Aquarium Co-Op** 2013-11-04, 19:07

All the goodeid livebearers will go down as low as the mid 50s.

Cherry shrimp varients, ghost shrimp, snails etc will go down in the 50s also.

dwarfpike 2013-11-04, 19:11

Check out blue spotted and pygmy sunfish.

fishyladdy 2013-11-04, 20:14

wait cherry chrimp are supposed to be kept in cold water???

Lamental Jester 2013-11-04, 20:17

fishyladdy wrote:wait cherry chrimp are supposed to be kept in cold water???

Not "supposed to", cherries can tolerate lower temps, but their ideal temp is in the 70-78 degree range

fishyladdy 2013-11-04, 20:31

oh ok lol i was gonna say.. my cherries are at like 80.. is that to high?

Lamental Jester 2013-11-04, 20:47

They can tolerate 80, but again, "tolerate" and "ideal" are two different things... during the summer my shrimp tank got to the high 80s I didn't see any deaths. However, if you can I would suggest lower your tank a few degrees to keep them at more of their comfortable temp range

fishyladdy 2013-11-04, 20:56

all my females are berried now so if i do that it wont freak them out right?

Lamental Jester 2013-11-04, 21:00

as long as it isn't a quick sudden drop (like throwing a crap ton of ice in there, lol) it should be fine, just do it gradually if you wanna be super safe, like it's only a few degrees anyways

Now, back to the thread topic... obvious one: goldfish???

**MRTom** 2013-11-04, 21:08

Tanks for bringing the thread back! Goldfish definitely need to be on the list! I'll research some more on these and add them to the list!

Maybe I should start linking some profiles to the list too.

cichlid-gal 2013-11-04, 23:25

Pearl Danio, bloodfin tetras, buenos aires tetras, and this one is interesting...batfish (but their size and info says at least a 120G tank...and up to 24 inches... affraid

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/stats/cyprinids_stats/stats_cyprinids_Myxocyprinus_asiaticus.html

Also other minnows (Gold cloud, silver cloud), flagfish, pumpkinseed, sticklebacks, koi

Jessikins 2013-11-04, 23:36

I was kinda toying with the idea of doing a PNW freshwater native tank (crawdads, sculpin, bluegill and so on...) but I looked up some regs and apparently that's illegal without a special license. Do I be the rebel I want to be or find a new venture..... hmmmmm scratch

Either way I appreciate this thread, a cold water tank would be fun!

fishNAbowl 2013-11-04, 23:54

Dojo loach:) neat coldwater critter gets about a foot long.
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/loaches/DojoLoach.php

fishNAbowl 2013-11-05, 00:02

Mongoose loach?
Chinese golden zebra loach?

Black banded sun fish!

Very Happy

Giving me ideas for something to start in my garage-fun!

**MRTom** 2013-11-05, 01:27

Jessikins wrote:I was kinda toying with the idea of doing a PNW freshwater native tank (crawdads, sculpin, bluegill and so on...) but I looked up some regs and apparently that's illegal without a special license. Do I be the rebel I want to be or find a new venture..... hmmmmm

Either way I appreciate this thread, a cold water tank would be fun!

My whole cold water tank thing started because I would desperately love to keep a tank of novumbra hubbsi (olympic mudminnow) which in my opinion should be the state fish! I LOVE the look of those guys. Sadly as you pointed out, "cold water" was poured over my idea Very Happy

Thanks for the ideas everyone, keep them coming! I'll collate and update the first post with the list as soon as I can!

Jessikins 2013-11-05, 01:32

Arrrg! Novumbra hubbsi are beautiful! Stupid rules!! Mad

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-05, 01:45

.........whoa those pygmy sunfish look awesome, almost look like annual killifish! WHOA... WANT!!

dwarfpike 2013-11-05, 01:48

PokeSephiroth wrote:.........whoa those pygmy sunfish look awesome, almost look like annual killifish! WHOA... WANT!!

Yeah, we do have some darn colorful natives that are often overlooked.

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-05, 02:32

natives? What?! WHERE?!?! *nostril flare*

dwarfpike 2013-11-05, 02:35

Less so actually in our state ... though pumpkin seeds are rather pretty (though technically an introduced invasive native). Some of the darters and smaller sunfish are quite attractive though.

**MRTom** 2013-11-05, 02:39

Pygmy sunfish and olympic mudminnow are both native. Actually mudminnow is our only endemic fish! Very Happy

We should have a thread on these sometime... if only to dream... who knows, we may kick off a conservation effort someday!

Now... back to the topic, keep sending fish recommendations Smile

**Aquarium Co-Op** 2013-11-05, 03:04

I thought of another one. Dojo Loaches and panda Garras

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-05, 03:04

Really? Huh.... I'm curious where you could go and catch some native species... hmm I mean, which lakes/water ways...

Back to the topic:
I've always thought that Rosy Barbs were considered subtropical fish.
Puntius semifasciolatus - Gold Barbs

**MRTom** 2013-11-05, 03:15

Panda garras FTW! Apparently there is also rasbora rasbora which is sympatric to it... great diving point for more research!

And gold barbs are a great one, I wonder if the truly golden aquarium bred variety is still cold water resistant!

**Aquarium Co-Op** 2013-11-05, 03:19

Oh, my favorite platy is a cold water fish. Variatus Platies Smile

tayntdawg 2013-11-05, 03:22

This is way cool man. I allways wanted to do PNW Puget sound saltwater tank with a badass octopus and a mora eel. Thanks for the idea and the cooler water fish.

dwarfpike 2013-11-05, 03:25

MRTom wrote:And gold barbs are a great one, I wonder if the truly golden aquarium bred variety is still cold water resistant!

Sadly I've never seen the wild form for sale, it's very pretty.

Noble Gourami (Ctenops nobilis - think a larger, elongated chocolate gourami) and paradise fish both come to mind, especially the ones taht used to be called M. chinensis.

KaraWolf 2013-11-05, 14:42

excuse me while I steal that Pygmy sunfish idea tooo cute!! Plus I found a study on their life cycle that includes a breeding project Razz

In the meantime, danio erythromicron 73-78. Which is tiny and has pink and green stripes Very Happy

but is called emeraldgreen lol
Another is devario pathirana at 68-75 the barred danio

**MRTom** 2013-11-05, 15:23

KaraWolf wrote: excuse me while I steal that Pygmy sunfish idea tooo cute!! Plus I found a study on their life cycle that includes a breeding project
In the meantime, danio erythromicron 73-78. Which is tiny and has pink and green stripes :Dbut is called emeraldgreen lol
Another is devario pathirana at 68-75 the barred danio

Ooh please share that link to the study if you can!

And thanks for pointing out devario pathirana! Love spotted fish! Where did you get the temps for these guys? SF lists 73F and fishbase lists 71. I am thinking of creating a lukewarm temperature list for tanks I will setup in the high parts of my room! I'm thinking 3 or 4 layers of tanks, at decreasing temps as you go down... something like 74->68->62 Very Happy

KaraWolf 2013-11-05, 16:38

study of scientificness! http://www.nanfa.org/articles/elassoma.shtml !!!
As for temps seriously fish gave celcious and I converted on some other website. I could very well have swapped the two >> if I had been more then random cruizing I would have found several and averaged them unless most of them matched except one or two.

**MRTom** 2013-11-05, 16:53

YES!!! What a geekout! study

All reproductive studies were conducted in the laboratory. The fishes were contained in four 40-liter and six 20-liter all-glass aquaria. Continuous air was supplied by aquarium pumps and air stones. Water temperature was controlled within 3°C by tube-type aquarium heaters with internal thermostats. A 15.5 hour light period was maintained throughout the study using daylight supplemented with fluorescent light banks on an automatic timer. Because elassomid fishes will not readily eat dry foods, they were fed live brine shrimp (Artemia) nauplii either daily or every second day, depending upon their size and breeding condition.

In order to duplicate their natural environment as closely as possible, aquatic plants, principally of the genus Ceratophyllum, were collected with breeding stocks of elassomid fishes and used in the spawning aquaria. Specimens were transported from the field to the lab in Styrofoam boxes and then placed into a 40-liter aquarium filled with 21°C distilled water. After a period of 7-10 days, five or six mature females were transferred into each of two 20-liter aquaria with physical conditions similar to those of the holding tank. Using aquarium heaters, the water temperature in these two aquaria was gradually raised 2.5-4.5°C over a period of 10-14 days until the female abdomens began to enlarge, indicating egg production. This temperature was maintained for another 7-8 days, at which time one or two males of the same species were introduced into each tank with the females. After a period of 2-3 days, during which the males established territories, spawning usually occurred.

Within 10 minutes after spawning, the eggs were transferred into 50 ml petri dishes and maintained under similar physical conditions. Photographs of live eggs were taken of each embryological stage, upon which the accompanying composite illustrations were drawn.

The prolarvae were maintained in the same petri dishes until they reached a total length of 8-10 mm. At this time they were transferred into a 20-liter all-glass aquarium and allowed to grow to adult size. Periodically, specimens were preserved in a 5% formalin solution for later observation. Because of the small number of eggs produced by a single spawn, and the high mortality rates of eggs and larvae, several spawns were necessary in order to complete a series from newly hatched prolarvae to adult.

Interestingly they kept them in pretty warm water to breed! scratch

KaraWolf 2013-11-05, 20:14

maybe to speed the spawning cycle? They were collected in SC/NC so maybe they were trying to duplicate the summer.

Livebearer 2013-11-06, 02:44

Here are some more.
Heterandria formosa N. American native livebearer, 45o to 75o male 2cm, females, 3cm to 4cm
Daces; phoxinus oreas, temps14.5c to 25.3c, adults 40-55mm, distribution, VA. feeds on algee, insects, detritus matter.
Gobies, shiners
Norhtern minnow species (check each states regs!)
Cory's suggestion on Goodieds but not all can tolerate cool waters over winter and are HARD to find and are threatened in some way, so Join the A.L.A.!
Gambusia species (holbrookie, affins are regulated in Wa. State) Yes Cory I have the invasive species list in hand!
Green sunfish, fun when small and great for the frypan when grown! cyclops

Chubs,
Black banded sunfish (small species good for a larger pond)
Blue spotted sunfish, 40mm to 70mm, distrabution VA. says good aquarium fish!
some killfishes, just to name a few
Yellow bullhead (a smaller catfish/gamefish stocked here in WA.)
I have had an outdoor tub-pond going seasonally for 3 years and have kept;
Danios,
Gambusia
Guppies
minnows
Green sunfish
White clouds
Largemouth bass
Brown bullhead
Some of these I had a fishing license to obtain.
I would wait til' spring to pursue this venture and do a lot of research and search other states fish clubs for stock.

**Aquarium Co-Op** 2013-11-08, 04:08

Here's an article I found tonight. I'm tinkering with the idea of a coolwater fish room still Razz

http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Alternatives.htm

**Aquarium Co-Op** 2013-11-08, 04:30

Found another article.

http://www.tropicalfishfinder.co.uk/article_detail.asp?id=103

**MRTom** 2013-11-19, 02:34

I took everyone's recommendations and researched temps for as many of the fish as I could. I couldn't figure out the sunfish and a few other native or less common species. I made a pretty little spreadsheet to continue my research, but for the time being I thought I'd share the chart on temps I have so far. (Click to see full size. I'll add it to the top post too)

One fish of interest is the Panda Garra (Garra Flavatra) which SF lists at 72, but they acknowledge the temp was collected during the hot season. This fish may actually prefer lower temps. However, most other sites I found (PFK, greenpark, liveaquaria, aqua-fish and TFK) reference the same numbers without referring to the lower expected temps. I see a trip to the library to find the Kullander and Fang paper in my near future!

**Aquarium Co-Op** 2013-11-19, 02:36

wow nice work Tom!

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-21, 23:01

I s'pose these haven't been mentioned yet, but what about Axolotls? I've read that their comfort zone can be around 60-64*F... they can go colder (some even claim that they keep them outside in ponds where the water ices over and still survive the winter season)... They can tolerate temps up to 74*F, but anything higher will stress them out.

Don't know if this really counts, since they aren't..."fish" per se, but they are becoming popular in the fish keeping hobby. Just thought I'd toss that in there.

**MRTom** 2013-11-22, 01:11

Nice toss! My focus so far has been on community fish, but there are already some non-community fish in there. Time to broaden the search!

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-25, 17:17

What about those Blind Cave Fish? They can live in water temps around 60*F up to 80*F.... Very Happy

Blind Cave Fish aka Mexican Tetra
Scientific name: Astyanax fasciatus mexicanus

Chiisai 2013-11-25, 17:25

Whats the ideal temp for Arowana. Use to be a fish store in tacoma had one in ice cold tank. Was about 3ft long so had to be there for some time.

Livebearer 2013-11-27, 02:49

Mr Tom,
Hey, I found a really cool little fish you just might be interested in,,,It's called Rosy red minnow.
I don't have the scientific name just yet but "will" available soon and be sold as a "feeder fish" by a company called easteraquatics.com Keep an eye on this and let me know as I want some for my pond too!!!

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-27, 02:53

I believe Rosy Red Minnows are illegal in Washington, as they are an invasive species Sad

Livebearer 2013-11-27, 02:59

I will check my invasive species list tomarrow thanks for the heads-up!

**PokeSephiroth** 2013-11-27, 04:01

I believe the Rosy Red Minnows are also known as Fathead Minnows (Pimephales promelas)...and while they are cold water compatible, they are considered as an invasive species in our state Sad

Source: http://wdfw.wa.gov/ais/pimephales_promelas/

**MRTom** 2013-11-27, 06:17

Yeah, there have been a few recommendations that, while cold water, are a challenge in WA. My excel sheet has an invasive and native/collectable column that I am using to track this. For the sake of completeness, I am keeping all species I find in the list, and using the two columns to ID which are best to keep here in WA.

IMO, scientific names for the win (in these situations!) Through some common name confusion, I landed on pseudosphromenus dayi which should be another temperate gourami. Sources vary on temp rage and parameters, but research is ongoing Smile

Livebearer 2013-11-27, 20:04

Mrtom, I think I've had these before. I did some searching on-line and believe these are what I had in my pond 2 years ago. They were in with a goldfish batch at a Petco store! I got all 7 but they did'nt last very long>>>

**MRTom** 2013-11-27, 21:59

Interesting. I'm thinking they won't exactly be good outdoor fish. Too placid and can only really handle temperate temps (68?)? I just got two and I'm trying to acclimate them. The seller's water params are totally the opposite of mine so I'm having a blast with this process. If I succeed, we'll also know if they are temperate too.

Chiisai 2013-11-28, 00:17

I am trying to figure out why WA considers these an invasive species. According to that link the breed with the water is 68+... where in WA is any water that gets that warm lol? I have lived Even in eastern washington I dont think it gets that warm.

**MRTom** 2013-11-28, 00:34

I think they have it restricted because it competes with the olympic mudminnow. I wonder if they might even interbreed, which would be even worse. The olympic mudminnow is endemic to washington, and as far as I know, is our only native fish... so if introduction of fatheads caused us to loose our only native fish, how much would that suck?
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/endangered/species/olympic_mudminnow.pdf

FWIW, looking at pictures online, the olympic mudminnow is a gorgeous fish... making me wish we had a more stable population so it wouldn't be as hard to keep in the hobby.

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