Help With Bottom Feeders - SAND

Hey guys, so. I recently upgraded my tank from a 50 -> 125G and it is stocked with 20 South Africans.

Everything is going great, ive changed from gravel to sand, and the sand is awesome and everything but i am too anal when it comes to tank cleanliness.
I gravel-suck my sand atleast daily, sometimes i skip a day and whatnot but i like to keep my water crystal clear. and i like to keep my substrate as clean as possible.

So i notice all of my fish go around and take big mouthfuls of the sand which is awesome and they do their part in keeping the bottom clean and circulated.
but i need a little more. I am considering any 4-6 inch catfish, i need something that can do 79 degree's and PH of 8.0-8.2 (thats where i fluctuate)

also considering shrimp or something of that nature.

Can anyone suggest an easy to find bottom feeder that will do good with south africans?


ive also got some amazon swords that are doing "ok"... i mean their roots look amazing but the leaves look like they are going through hell.
any suggestions on how to get them green and lush? my java fern also hasnt taken to any of my lava rock or driftwood. i dont understand at all.
ive tied it down with some sewing thread, it was "almost" attached to my lava rock until i made the transition from 50->125G


Is it a good idea to "unroot" your plants and let them float for short periods of time?
-I let my amazons from time to time float at the top when i am cleaning/reorganizing the tank, and everytime i do this they seem to "blossom" if you will. They turn very bright vibrant green, they open up all the way and the roots seem to be almost reaching out. which in my opinion looks like its a good thing for them being that close to my lights.
Any downfall to this?

So when you say "South Africans" what precisely do you mean?

unrooting plants on a regular basis is not recommended. If you have cichlids and shrimp, it will not be long until you just have cichlids. If you want fish that clean the bottom there are various kinds of loaches that eat leftover food and such. Unfortunately most of the critters that clean up your tank are cichlid food .

I wondered about the "South Africans" as well. If you mean Lake Malawi, mine dig so much that I could never keep rooted plants. I keep some Synodontis species with them, but they come up to the surface to feed along with the cichlids. They don't get much if they wait for food to hit the bottom.

I might be off in my thinking, but I feel that if you have a lot of food sitting around on the bottom of the tank, you are probably feeding too much.

Are we talking about rivers in south africa? like talapia and stuff?? I also never did planted in my african tank, because it would soften up the water too much and african rift lake fish usually like harder water... but I guess africa river fish are ok with softer water and lower PH.... Soooooo, lets get a better location so we can give better advice. cause there are cats that will be fine in higher PH, or Lower, depending on what your tank is.

larry.beck wrote:So when you say "South Africans" what precisely do you mean?

9x labidochromis caeruleus (Yellow Electric)
2x Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei"
1x Nimbochromis venustus (Female)
1x Maylandia lombardoi (Female)
1x julidochromis transcriptus (Unknown sex)
6x Aulonocara
German Red, Orange Shoulder, Albino Eureka red
1x Red Zebra

Zerc wrote:unrooting plants on a regular basis is not recommended. If you have cichlids and shrimp, it will not be long until you just have cichlids. If you want fish that clean the bottom there are various kinds of loaches that eat leftover food and such. Unfortunately most of the critters that clean up your tank are cichlid food .

LOL. Not to sound cruel or anything but ive been waiting to give my fish some shrimp or something. So far they've only had bloodworms, but some of them are getting pretty good sized.

Betty wrote:I wondered about the "South Africans" as well. If you mean Lake Malawi, mine dig so much that I could never keep rooted plants. I keep some Synodontis species with them, but they come up to the surface to feed along with the cichlids. They don't get much if they wait for food to hit the bottom.

I might be off in my thinking, but I feel that if you have a lot of food sitting around on the bottom of the tank, you are probably feeding too much.

Yeah, i need to look into exactly what type of plants i can have in the tank, something that grows fast enough to stay healthy that can take a beating.
My java fern looks like its on its last leg.

sandnuka wrote:Are we talking about rivers in south africa? like talapia and stuff?? I also never did planted in my african tank, because it would soften up the water too much and african rift lake fish usually like harder water... but I guess africa river fish are ok with softer water and lower PH.... Soooooo, lets get a better location so we can give better advice. cause there are cats that will be fine in higher PH, or Lower, depending on what your tank is.

I only have 2 small amazon swords and a small java fern. The rest is stacks of river rock found at a local river in the pacific northwest. i was going from the river bed theme, so i also have some tanish/whiteish sand and i think it looks fantastic. I have a few small pieces of driftwood aswell in there.

My water is from the well so its hard as it is. we have quite a few different metals in our water. enough to where we dont drink from the facet. lol.

-The mountain life.

Danny,

Thanks for the clarification on "south african". In fact, those are just "african" but - heads up - you're mixing 3 different types from 2 different lakes. Frequently this doesn't end up well. I would seriously recommend moving the transcriptus out of the tank. Your aulonocara may or may not be ok with your mbuna; the lombardoi and the red zebra are pretty aggressive for most aulonocara.

Now, for the "bottom feeder" you'll probably need to use either some sort of Synodontis or a Bristlenose. The Syndontis will also eat eggs/fry, so if you're trying to breed in that tank they're probably off the table as well.

larry.beck wrote:Danny,

Thanks for the clarification on "south african". In fact, those are just "african" but - heads up - you're mixing 3 different types from 2 different lakes. Frequently this doesn't end up well. I would seriously recommend moving the transcriptus out of the tank. Your aulonocara may or may not be ok with your mbuna; the lombardoi and the red zebra are pretty aggressive for most aulonocara.

Now, for the "bottom feeder" you'll probably need to use either some sort of Synodontis or a Bristlenose. The Syndontis will also eat eggs/fry, so if you're trying to breed in that tank they're probably off the table as well.

Yea ive taken head to all of the warnings.
Ive been trying to rehome my Transcriptus for a while. its quite aggressive sometimes.
ive even been asking for a trade. any aulonocara, was even accepting yellow labs and acei's.
no one wants him/her lol

I have also been trying to get rid of my Kenyi. but again no one wants these either. i think mine is a female for sure, showing half yellow coloring but very vibrant black bars still.

ive decided i will keep my vent. the fish is just too beautiful in my eyes. i love the patterns, and the coloring of both the male and the females. (even considered getting 3 females and 1 definite male)

All of my aggressive fish are 1/2 the size or even 1/3 the size of the aulonocara's.

Well aggression shouldnt be too big of an issue cause you moved them in a pretty descent sized tank.... just make sure there is allot of places to escape too...

as for adding a bottom feeder i would go Synodontis.... Very good cleaners, super hardy.

Be very careful feeding bloodworms to your mbuna. I've never fed them, but have read many times about problems others have had -- I think it can lead to bloat.

Betty wrote:Be very careful feeding bloodworms to your mbuna. I've never fed them, but have read many times about problems others have had -- I think it can lead to bloat.

out of the 20 fish, they only get 2 cubes maybe every 2 days, sometimes 3-4 days. i never feed them bloodworms back to back.

sandnuka wrote:Well aggression shouldnt be too big of an issue cause you moved them in a pretty descent sized tank.... just make sure there is allot of places to escape too...

as for adding a bottom feeder i would go Synodontis.... Very good cleaners, super hardy.

This Synodontis creature i keep hearing about...

i google that and get hundreds of different types it seems.

some that grow to 2 feet, some that only make it to 3-5 inches...


i want one that gets around 6-7 inches max. also. Where can i get one of these? are these order only kind of fish or would a LFS have anything?

AE86-Danny wrote:
This Synodontis creature i keep hearing about...

i google that and get hundreds of different types it seems.

some that grow to 2 feet, some that only make it to 3-5 inches...


i want one that gets around 6-7 inches max. also. Where can i get one of these? are these order only kind of fish or would a LFS have anything?

The most common synodontis Ive seen is the featherfin catfish (Synodontis eupterus) which are found readily at many fish stores including Petsmart. They get about 8".

I saw 2 nice featherfin at APFP about 2 weeks back.

DMD123 wrote:

AE86-Danny wrote:
This Synodontis creature i keep hearing about...

i google that and get hundreds of different types it seems.

some that grow to 2 feet, some that only make it to 3-5 inches...


i want one that gets around 6-7 inches max. also. Where can i get one of these? are these order only kind of fish or would a LFS have anything?

The most common synodontis Ive seen is the featherfin catfish (Synodontis eupterus) which are found readily at many fish stores including Petsmart. They get about 8".

awesome, that will be what i pick up.
Do you think they would be ok in PH8.0-PH8.2? And 79F?

and, this might sound completely ridiculous to ask, but. Are catfish really that good of "cleaners" ? will they eat poop and excess food? or just food?
i don't over feed my fish or anything, but from time to time my mom goes into my room when im out for 2-3 days and she feeds them.
and she seems to think that everytime they come to the glass they are hungry. so. sometimes they get overfeed im sure :/

just food

Zerc wrote:just food

All of my Cichlids already eat the excess food lol. they constantly dig looking for it.
no need for a catfish

and she seems to think that everytime they come to the glass they are hungry.

I got a chuckle from this...I can imagine my mom fish sitting the Acei and thinking they need fed everytime they come up to the glass or follow you as you walk by...

Jess S wrote:

and she seems to think that everytime they come to the glass they are hungry.

I got a chuckle from this...I can imagine my mom fish sitting the Acei and thinking they need fed everytime they come up to the glass or follow you as you walk by...

thats my mom to the T!!!


I try telling her, i have very active, and aggressive fish. i refuse to have a lifeless fish tank.
i want colors, i want movement, i want action! lol.


we fed them one time, it involved a pinch or 2 of flaked food, a splash of sinking pellets and a cube of blood worms (it was my last cube)

less than an hour goes by... my mom comes back down "Lemme see the fish tank" ... "Look they are hungry again, see you dont feed them enough" lol...

for some reason she seems to think that fish cant see very well outside of the glass???

and of course i try explaining that they have very good eyesight..

2x Ghost shrimp are in the tank.



sadly i wont be around long enough to watch the carnage.


the younger fish went after them. but my male sub adult males dont even care about them lol.


if they live that would be cool. but i dont have any hopes for that

I dont know any fish that are better garbage food/cleaners than catfish..... if your looking for something to eat your fish poop so you dont have to vacume as much then you shouldnt be lookin for a fish.... maybe snails, or shrimps, again, my fish would devour them so, good luck.

as for mom overfeeding..... your lucky you dont have tropheus, they would instantly die of bloat.... some of the cichlids you do have can get bloat too, and overfeeding can cause this so tell mom she will kill your fish. not to mention water quality gets super nasty from uneaten food.

Dont forget about snails! Nerites would be a great option and they wont everpopulate a freshwater tank! and they are real garbage disposals! Many varieties of nerites as well! I love zebra nerites!

Rabbit snails are great as well and they love hard/calcium rich waters like what yours should be! They get to a large size and shouldnt have a problem being eaten either!
there are many different varieties of these guys also!

Doza wrote:Dont forget about snails! Nerites would be a great option and they wont everpopulate a freshwater tank! and they are real garbage disposals! Many varieties of nerites as well! I love zebra nerites!

Rabbit snails are great as well and they love hard/calcium rich waters like what yours should be! They get to a large size and shouldnt have a problem being eaten either!
there are many different varieties of these guys also!

i think having a few snails around would be cool.

i tried out 2x ghost shrimp. needless to say, i can't find them in the tank anywhere lol...
they might be alive who knows. they were hanging around the top corners of the tank when i left.
there are just too many hiding places in my tank to know exactly what happened to the shrimp.


so i think ill get a few snails and maybe 5-10 more ghost shrimp.
a few people have told me that my fish would love small shrimp as a desert once in a while.