Duck lips treatment on cichlid

I just acquired a new fish and it was sick. Symptoms? Mouth stuck open, light fin rot, stringy white poo
The diagnosis? a form of Columnaris
I thought I would document the process I am doing for any one else in the future who has this issue.

From my reading Ive got this info; the disease is  bacterial, and usually fatal
I think the fatality issue is related to the fact the fish in most cases can not eat and medicines in the water do not end up in the fish where they are needed. So my approach deals with both the external and internal treatment.

External:
Good clean water
Lower water temps to below 82 deg.
Add salt at 1 Tablespoon to 5 gallons water
Treat with Tetra Parasite Guard that contains metro which is effective on this (Others have used a metro and Furan combo)

Internal:
Get a food/medicine mix into fish
Meds include SeaChem Kanaplex and Seachem Focus
Also bit of Epsom salt / vitamins / garlic for an immune boost

So I have the externals in action. With the Tetra Parasite Guard it allows up to three treatments total with 48 hours in between each. 1 fizzy tab is used for each ten gallons of water. I have done the first treatment and will go through all three for sure.

Salt has been added at the correct ratio and temp has been lowered.

Here is where my treatment differs from most getting meds inside the fish. How is that accomplished? A baby medicine syringe a small amount of silicone air tubing.
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I mix a medicated food mix which consists of frozen fish foods like Hikari krill (more ground consistency not whole), brine shrimp, mysis shrimp. Then I add regular fish foods that have been finely ground (or small fry food or flake), and the meds which in this case is Kanaplex and Focus, Boyd's vitamin, Seachem Garlic Guard and a touch of Epsom salt.

The trick lies in getting the right dose. You kind of have to guess at it a bit when reading the instructions because it is supposed to be a Tablespoon or so of product made up. I think my first treatment was a little light on meds but the one I do next will have a little bit more. With the Kanaplex it needs to be done every two days.

Then the fun comes, you have to catch the fish and pump this mess down its throat. Not too hard since the fish is in a 40B. I wear latex gloves and use a wet towel to hold the fish in place, otherwise the sharp fins can get you good. I find it best to put tank water in a bucket and work out of it. When putting the tube down the fish be gentle and you can kind of get a feel for where to stop. Pump the mix in slow and the fish will naturally gulp it down and swallow some of the mix. Put the fish back into the bucket for a little bit. It is normal to see a bit of regurgitation but the majority of your mix is in the fish. Return fish to the tank. You might again see a small amount of regurgitation but still ok.

I had an issue with my Pearsei years ago where she stopped eating and I was sure I was going to lose her. I had just dealt with a horrible loss of fish because of adding wild caught fish to an established tank without first quarantining. So I was a bit numb and doing a hard core force feed was not that hard, I figured once they stop eating its already dead. This treatment worked great and I have a big healthy Pearsei today, that some of you know as my Porkchop. So this method, while extreme seems to work. I think it would work great with internal parasite and use some prazi or Epsom salt.

Just to show you why I feel the treatment is worth doing... Here is my newly acquired fish, a Paraneetroplus regani (formerly Vieja regani)
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Here is a pic of the mouth where it is starting to get the 'stuck open' part of the disease.
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I will try and document this process and answer any questions. Hopefully it can help others. If anyone else has had to deal with Columnaris and has failed or succeed please add to this topic.

This morning was not time to re-dose with meds but I did catch and and pump a food/vitamin mix into the fish. This mix was just an immunity boost with just a little Epsom salt to deal with any internal parasites.

Tomorrow is a 25% water change and re-dose of Tetra Parasite Guard. This will be the time for a Kanaplex/Focus medicated food feeding.

I applaud you for giving this a real try at the treatments for your special fish.

I don't know anything about most of those but one question I would have would be giving the fish the epsom salts internally? I've heard of adding epsom salts to the water to help with dropsy, constipation and such but never giving epsom salts directly to the fish to eat. Just wondering about how that will work.

Epsom salt is extremely effective to treat hexamita and internal parasites
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I find it works better inside the fish as opposed to in the water, thats why my treatment includes it.

In the link above, it is used in a 3% mix with water and then pelleted foods are soaked in it and fed. I mix it into the food paste to pump into its tummy because the fish is not eating. So same method just different delivery system.

Freshwater fish, though they live in the water, they do not drink it. So anything put into the water must be absorbed through the gills, and not much of that is done. Adding Kanamyacin will help with the absorption of the meds. We as humans use Epsom salts for constipation and to help clean out the intestinal track, it works in the same way with fish.

Kanamyacin or the Kanplex that I am using has proven very effective in these types of treatments. I choose to do it internally because a much smaller amount is used instead of treating the whole tank. Plus I have read a few things that say not to mix this with other medications. So I put this on the inside and use the parasite meds on the outside.

I hope this Regani pulls through, it is such a gorgeous specimen.  Would love to have it my my 210g with my Pearsei.

The fish has been pretty calm during its treatment. Still seems like it has the will to live so that is good!

Good luck with the treatment. I hope you can save that pretty fish.

Thanks Betty, I hope so too.

Its been 48 hours since the last treatment with meds. My morning began with a water change and then adding salt for the volume of new water going in. The tank was dosed with the second treatment of Tetra Parasite Guard.

The fish has had lots of white stringy poo. Mouth is still extended/open, but does not look worse. I decided to up the dose on the Kanaplex/Focus and Epsom salt in the feed mix. The instructions have you put 1 unit of Kanaplex in about 1 Tablespoon of food mix. Then the Focus is supposed to be added at a 5 to 1 ratio. The focus is just supposed to help the meds bind with the food so I did not use that much, probably more like 1 to 1. Its difficult to judge the effective dose when you are kind of guessing how much of this is ending up in the fish. The ideal treatment would be to weigh the fish and determine the amount of meds needed based on that, but no real at home treatment are designed that way. Im going with a good educated guess based on past treatment and response of other fish.

I really was surprised to see so much stringy poo. I was hoping to maybe see a bit of real poo from the force feeding coming through. I have my game plan for about a ten day treatment process. After that Im really not sure how to proceed. My last treatment with porkchop a couple years back showed good success at the ten day mark and the fish was eating again on its own. This one has the mouth issue which makes it hard to feed and unless it goes down I will have to continue the force feeding.

My wife and I leave for Portland tomorrow so I hope to get a food/vitamin boost into the fish before we leave. We have a friend staying over while we are gone who will keep me informed if anything changes. But I will be back on Sunday to do the final Tetra Parasite Guard dose and another medicated feed.

A little reading material:

Typical MFK... but good info on treatment
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Not a whole lot of info but just a nice thing to see that a fish most likely worse than mine made it
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Gave me some things to think about if I have to take it past ten days. The Tetra Parasite Guard is a nice cocktail to treat a varity of things and its ingredient list includes: Praziquantel, Diflubenzuron, Metronidazole and Acriflavin

I think if I dont see an improvement after the three treatments of this I am going to try just the Metronidazole treatment. I think at that point will also try Furan-2.

Today begins with another feeding of vitamin enriched food with no meds. Still a little Epsom salt in the mix. I had been using crushed flake food in my mix but today I decided to add a couple of ground up pellets. I have Hikari sinking carnivore that I use to feed by bichirs. This stuff seems to put size and weight on fish that eat it. It is basically a smaller version of their massivore delight. This is something I would not use as a regular staple for this type of fish but I think a higher calorie food might be a help since the Regani looks thin.

Any change on his jaw?

Funny you ask, I did my write up preparing the food mix and had not seen the fish yet. I look in on him and it appears the mouth has closed up a bit and looks closer to normal. Today he was not quite so passive when I was holding him to feed him his mix. He gave a pretty powerful tail flap but then settled in to let me get the food in him. I think I may be on the right track. Wont be able to see him until Sunday night when he gets his next treatment but the house-sitter will keep me informed if anything bad happens.

Update? And how about a new tread on your trip( fish you bought)

So I am home and what do I come home to?
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Since the AC110 is on the other side of the tank and has not disturbed any rocks... It means he moved rocks. If he did that, it means he is using his mouth! Very good sign of getting better.

Now for the bad....
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Still has lots of stringy white poo.

Tonight I do my final Tetra Parasite Guard treatment. I also am going to mix up the Kanaplex/Focus meds into his food. The directions say three treatments but I think his first was only like half a dose so I will give him one more medicated dose in two days.

So kind of a win to see the fish with its mouth shutting and that it move rocks around. Stringy poo still a concern.

Yep he is on the mend. Lots of attitude when I was trying to hold him to get the food/med mix into him. I ended up getting totally wet and he splashed me good. Tomorrow should be fun with his feeding if this batch of meds kicks in.

Great news!

Very happy to hear this. Great work.

Thanks guys for the words of encouragement.

I still feel like the stringy poo is an issue that says the fish still is having something going on inside that is not going well. I dont want to med it to death but do want to make sure to get whatever is causing this. So tonight I will give another meal that has Epsom and then tomorrow the last Kanaplex/Focus treatment.  I think I will continue the salt treatment for the duration of ten days and see if I need to go further with another round of metro....

You're putting a lot of effort into saving him and I think that's awesome. Sure hope he gets well soon.

You dont see Regani around much. And from my research this fish should have the personality to fit my larger peaceful cichlid tank.

The treatment process is a bit extreme for sure but I guess I want to let people know that sometimes even the worst cases may be able to be brought back. I look back in hindsight to when (Over two years ago) I had lost my tank of fish to some horrible bug/parasite and if I would have done this hands on approach I think I could have possibly saved my fish. When a fish just stops eating, it usually seems to be the end. But this method of getting the meds in the fish seems to work. I hope to have inspired others to just try to think outside the box to treat these issues.

I should have mentioned about the little medicine syringe, it is available at your local pharmacy. Usually all you need to do is ask and they just give it to you. since I deal with big fish a standard silicone air tubing worked but you could even do this on smaller fish if you found the correct sized materials. In regard to the meds, of course you need to do your research as to what to use depending on symptoms but It seems the Seachem stuff in the small tubes works good because they give more detailed info in regard to putting it in a food mixture. Other products may be a bit trickier to get the right amount.

Will continue to keep you guys informed on the progress and keep pictures coming.

He looks good! I would be afraid of squishing my little fish!

When the fish is healthy it doesnt want to be held, so last night when I got the powerful tail flips and ended up drenched I knew I was on the right path. I have never tried this on small fish but it would work. Just need to get stuff sized down. I know you can find a small silicone tubing used for fuel lines and likely a smaller type syringe.

Sunday evening I did a water change and spread the gravel out and did the medicated food mix. Sure enough he dug a big hole out again. So he has function of his mouth for sure. Last night he got a food/vitamin/Epsom salt mix and did not thrash about too much. Tonight I will go ahead with my last Kanaplex/Focus treatment. This will include a 25% water change, and will continue with the salt treatment.

Did not see any poo yet so cant tell if its still white and stringy. I have had the heater unplugged during this treatment and the house temps have not got that low so the little thermometer has shown in the lower green for temperature. Will likely plug it back in Wednesday night and get the temp back up and see how he responds.

Been very happy with the results of his treatment. Will likely wait until I can get him to eat on his own before he goes in the 210g.

Saw him poo tonight and a bit of white, stringy followed by some normal stuff coming out.   

Only a fishkeeper or a new parent would be excited by poo!   

Still has not got an appetite but actively digs after each time I gravel vac and spread it all back out.

Great news!

That's great!! Now if only you could find a successful cure for teenagers with duck lips hehehe.

MorganEA wrote:That's great!! Now if only you could find a sucsessful cure for teenagers with duck lips hehehe.

By all the gawds, yes please!!!

So the fish looks well and digs a ton in the 40B. I was waiting for him to actually eat something in front of me but so far no sign of that. I put some floating pellets in the other day came back a few hours later and they were gone. So I dont know if he ate them or they sank into the gravel. I guess I will find out with my next gravel vac.

Not really sure how I should proceed.... Its been about 5 days since all treatment has stopped and I have seen no trace of stringy poo. I think he would do better in the 210g but I dont know if I should wait a little longer (maybe up to 10 days). He is not harming anything where he is and I dont need the tank for anything, he just looks so pathetic in the 40B. Any thoughts?

Try a slow sinking pellet or some frozen bloodworms..... If he eats, then that's awesome! I'd probably make sure he was completely healthy before unleashing porkchop on him :-)

I have a 3mm sinking NLS I can try. I ran out of bloodworms but I tried a bit of frozen brine shrimp with no success.

I have some of the 1/2 sinking sd large cichlid pellets ( the green ones sink, the red float) I can give you some if you want!!! I currently don't have any bloodworms( haven't been out to buy them in a two weeks ) I also have some of the sinking veggie/ krill sd ( not the mini/nano stuff) let me know

Thanks for the offer Lloyd, but I have tons of Southern Delight still. Was trying small sized pellets (Hikari) just in case the fishes mouth was still a bit sore. I ran out of bloodworms and then I ended up getting all that cheap frozen food on clearance at Petsmart. I have really never had fish reject the bloodworms. I just need to pick some up.

Threw in a couple Southern Delight pellets along with some small Omega One and still not seeing the fish actively going after them. I had to leave for work so they were just floating in the tank with a few of the sinkers hitting the bottom.

The fish is apparently comfortable enough to dig and pile the gravel up so I cant see him but not to eat. The Regani is very calm and is not startled by my presence or scared of me. I just am looking for it to eat before moving him. I just need to get some frozen bloodworm.

Yeah, I would want to see him eating before moving him back as well. There is a chance the competition might bring out his eating instincts, but at the same time he might not get any food in the big tank unless he's a more active eater.

The thing is I really dont know much about this fishes eating habits and what not because it was a newly acquired fish when I brought in in. I know it was being fed Southern Delight foods so I broke out some of that too. I know at times its a monkey see, monkey do thing with fish. My red bay snook took about three weeks to realize what the other fish were eating was food.

So I did find out the guy is a bit of a shy eater. I finally got some frozen bloodworms to try and have not seen any aggressive attempts at eating it. Still not sure if it is eating at all. I did a gravel vac and noticed a bit of food but also a bit of poo, so Im guessing it sneaks a bite now and then.

The thing loves to dig! I level out the gravel every time I clean and then he piles it up, so I chalk that up to healthy fish behavior.

I really cant base eating as being healthy or sick since I have pretty much have almost never seen one of my bichir eat and its doing well for many months now.

I think I might wait for the weekend and put him into the 210g. I will likely do it at night when lights are out so the fish can settle in. Just hope the Pearsei likes him.

It is a sneaky little eater but Im pretty sure I got it interested in food.   

The bloodworms seem to work but I had forgot I had got some small earthworms that were sitting in a container in the fridge. The earthworms might have got it going since they were live and wiggling.

Last night I moved the Regani to its new home in the 210g. Since I knew it ate some earthworms on its own I felt it was time for the move. I did this in the dark and it went very quick and easy. So the fish had all night to settle in.

The big concern was how my big pearsei would take to the new fish. Well woke up to no problem from Porkchop at all. Couldnt care less. The problem came from the red isletas who was fixated on this new fish. It had already displayed its dominance and had the Regani backed into the upper corner of the tank but had to keep going at it and biting and attacking. So my morning began with netting the isletas and moving him to the 40B.

The red isletas was really never planned on as being in the 210g but it had done fairly well until the new regani came in. It will likely get the 72g bowfront back as its home once my heterospilus grow out.

So much for the pearsei being ok with the new fish. As soon as the light turned on it started chasing the regani. I turned off the lights and it mellowed out. I am going to leave the light off today and just see if porkchop will accept the new fish.

Hopefully she was just setting up a pecking order...... My community tank does it every time I do a gravel vac. They mellow out after a day

Porkchop mellowed and things have calmed down. She still flexes a bit of muscle but not the constant chasing. Regani settled in and ate a lot of pellet food. May wait a couple days to put the red isletas back in.

lloyd378 wrote:Hopefully she was just setting up a pecking order...... My community tank does it every time I do a gravel vac.  They mellow out after a day

So it seems like that was it. All seems well and the Regani is loving the big tank and is not that shy of an eater in there. It likes the sinking pellets and does not surface feed yet. It got beat up a little during the 'initiation' by the red Isletas and Pearsei but looks to be healing up nicely.