Setting up a Lake Malawi Tank

Hello! After much deliberation, I think I've settled on starting a dwarf mbuna tank. Since my experience with Cichlid's is limited to some GBR's and Angels, I thought I'd turn the Box for some guidance.

Here's what I have so far:

55g, with about 100lbs of Mexican Pot Rock setup with some intricate caves and such.

Substrate is 20lbs of CaribSea Ocean Direct Oolite Live Sand and 20lbs CaribSea African Cichlid mix, along with a bit of random gravel.

Filtration is an AC110 (which I might supplement with an AC30 that I have laying around), and a bubble wall to provide surface agitation.


Now, on to the questions!

• As far as stocking, I have no idea where to begin. I would like a diverse population, with as many different colors and species represented. If that means only 2 different species due to the size of my tank, so be it! I honestly have no clue here (yet).
  
  
• I know that I need hard, alkaline water for these guys (which is why I chose the substrates that I did), what is the 'best' way to achieve ideal water quality?
  
  
• What is the ideal way to actually introduce fish to the tank? Should I purchase a large amount of juvies, or can I introduce them a few at a time?
  
  
• My friend has an adult Yellow Lab, would it be appropriate to put him in my tank for the time being and introduce more fish later?
  

Anyways, I'm at work now, and will post some pictures later this evening. Thanks for reading!

to start i would reccomend that you consider upgrading the filter to a canister. something that would turn over the 55g over like 8-10 times per hour. if thats too much then you can supplement it with things like sponge filters and powerheads. both give increased flow and help to keep the water oxygenated.
All that being said mbuna typically will require a heavy stockload in order to help alleviate stress on females. for many species the 1m-4f ratio will do just fine, some require many more females as they tend to be on the aggressive side. mbuna will also readily crossbred within species that typically closely resemble each other. for instance yellow lab x red zebra cross is what you see at most petcos labeled under yellow lab. in this sense its best to avoid picking species with common traits, verticle barring, lateral stripes, similar colors, etc.
I think your on the right track considering lab's as one of your species. they are known for being very peaceful and add a nice splash of color. other common starters include yellow tail acei, Rusties, and im sure somebody else will chime in with others. i believe three species is about all you can ask for in a tank that size. ill share with you a couple of links to maybe help influence your descision [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

just keep this thread active theres a few others that should be able to help as well. GL to ya

A higher turn over rate like Anthraxx mentioned is a good idea. The AC110 is a good filter but likelihood is you would do best by adding one more AC110 or a canister.

Here's what I've got so far:

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Upgrading the filter is planned in the future as well.

What is the best way to actually introduce fish into the tank?

Nice pics! Looks like you will have some happy fish.

The setup looks very nice.  If your filter is already cycled, (my opinion from past experience) the best way to introduce fish is all at once as juvies. If you can't do it that way, starting with the least aggressive species might be the way to go and when you do add more, add a group -- not just one or two at a time.  This will help spread the aggression that will be directed toward the newcomers.  Some have had good results with moving rocks around to change up territories when introducing new fish to an established tank, but I've never had much luck doing that.

I don't add anything to the water in most of my tanks, but you can purchase cichlid 'salts' or make your own.  There are recipes online.

Choosing stock is the hard part and the fun part!  There are so many options.  Do you plan to have the fish breed?

Betty wrote:

Choosing stock is the hard part and the fun part!  There are so many options.  Do you plan to have the fish breed?

Possibly. I've heard that as long as you have correct water parameters and fed properly they will breed on their own. At the moment I don't plan on encouraging it, but if it happens than it happens!

Betty wrote:The setup looks very nice.  If your filter is already cycled, (my opinion from past experience) the best way to introduce fish is all at once as juvies. If you can't do it that way, starting with the least aggressive species might be the way to go and when you do add more, add a group -- not just one or two at a time.  This will help spread the aggression that will be directed toward the newcomers.  Some have had good results with moving rocks around to change up territories when introducing new fish to an established tank, but I've never had much luck doing that.

I don't add anything to the water in most of my tanks, but you can purchase cichlid 'salts' or make your own.  There are recipes online.

Choosing stock is the hard part and the fun part!  There are so many options.  Do you plan to have the fish breed?

  Have fun with africans?

I think the AC110 is a great start for filtering. I would be rid of any carbon inserts that came with it,and instead add another biofoam insert for the 110.
Then take the AC 30 and place nothing but extra mechanical filtration .
I use the same setup except My 55 runs an AC70,and an AC50. The 70 has 2 Biosponges,the 50 has 3 scrubber sponges for mechanical filtering.
It works wonderfully,and for the money is more thrifty than a canister filter.
The only true drawback of using all HOB filters is the noise you get from the outlets pouring into the tank. If that doesn't bother you it should be great.

As far as water parameters,and getting getting them to match the lake, You would be best adding crushed coral in a filter bag and adding that into maybe the AC 50 as well.

Personally, I just use CaribSea African Cichlid sand ,in tank. My PH stays at 8.0,but some people think that substrate as a way to continually buffer water is not reliable.
I do tend to disagree with that based on my experience though.
Also making your own cichlid salt is super cheap. the amount of epsom salt,and baking soda will vary depending on your tap water,but basically all you need to do is.....

Add about 1tsp of baking soda per 5 gallons of dechlorinated water.then slowly add more to adjust,until your ph is around8.0 to 8.4,
then repeat the process using epsom salt,looking for a dgh between 15-25,
then again repeat adding 1tsp of regular non iodized table salt or marine salt per 5 gallons of water.
Once you figure out the best formula for your water,then you can just mix up a big batch and add it during water changes.
Way cheaper than buying the store buffers,and it has exactly the same ingredients.

Now choosing dwarf species isn't that difficult,but you really only need to know what exactly is a dwarf mbuna.
While many do say yellow Labs are dwarf mbuna,I have seen them get a little larger than 6'',so goes the same for Rusties.
While that size for those 2 species isn't common ,if they were to reach that size,they would not be dwarf mbuna.
Dwarf mbuna should not get larger than 4'',if so only to 5'' tops. That leaves the 2 previously stated species,as well as just about any Cynotilapia,Ps.Saulosi,and Ps.Demasoni.
Since Demasoni,and Saulosi should not be kept together,you can only choose 1 of those species. If you choose saulosi,then you have to avoid Yellow Labs,because female Saulosi are also yellow,and they will crossbreed.
The Cynotilapia group is exclusively dwarf,but they are also all blue barred species. meaning you won't have much luck keeping them with Saulosi,or Demasoni,with the exception probably being Cyno. sp. Hara,because although they are blue barred,their bodies,especially males is more of a very light blue,and look fairly different than Saulosi,or Demasoni.
So the suggestion then would be as follows.....

Ps. Saulosi
Iodotropheus Sprengerea,AKA Rusties
Cyno.Sp.Hara

or...

Labidochromis Caereleus
Ps. Demasoni
Iodotropheus Sprengerea


On how to introduce the fish,it is definitely best to add all juvies in the tank together.
Adding 1 species starting with the least aggressive species ,and ending with the most aggressive is likely the 2nd best option.
Adding 1 adult,then adding other fish later as  you gain them won't be terrible,if all the other added fish are juvies,as adults tend not to bother them until they are sexually mature.
And of finally,the worst possible way to add mbuna to a tank is adding adult fish 1 at a time,this is definitely to a good idea. The new fish will always get picked on,probably to death.

Ok, so I think I've figured out my stocking a bit. I'm thinking some like the following:

Pseudotropheus demasoni x 5

Labidochromis Caereleus x 5

Iodotropheus Sprengerea x 5

Plus I have a 5" ABN that's in there now.

If I'm able to find groups of juvies and they are raised together, does the typical 1 male for so many females apply?

Everything sounds good.Except you will need to add another 10 to 15 demasoni.

See the thing is Demasoni are known for their aggression. experts agree,the only way to deal with that is to house them in much larger groups.

The cool thing is it will only add character,and activity to your tank. But yeah you will have to buy more of them.

Going with demasoni is still a good choice i think. If you get 20 of them at least a couple subdominant males will need to be rehomed,eventually. As they mature extra males who find themselves hiding behind filter intakes,heaters,or top corners of the tank should be removed,especially if they have any signs of nipped fins or bite marks of any kind.

Demasoni are known as the extra work fish for just this reason. But it is well worth the work,once you have a nice colony.

Honestly,I think the fish you've chosen all contrast each other well. I,myself would not be against doing colonies of all 3 species in a tank,as long as the filtration met the needs of this kind of overstocking.

The truth is you want to do 1 species(Demasoni) who is suggested to keep as a colony,and the 2 other species you want to keep are known as the most peaceful mbuna there is,So 3 colonies together could work in terms of extra males being tolerant of each other. But it's something only an experienced mbuna keeper should try.

**Note** When I mention colonies,I'm referring to keeping 3 harem groups of the same species together in the same tank.For whatever reason 2 harems will just not work. But 3 seems to be a magic number.The most agreed reason for this is that there will always be 1 dominant male. If he has only 1 subdominant male to harass,he will drive that subdommale into submission. If he has 2 subdoms to chase,the aggression is spread enough for those subdoms to thrive,
Plus there will be 9 to 12 females to chase as well, spreading aggression even further.

For you though I could suggest adding an extra group of females per species,instead of trying colonies. The result is almost exactly the same,A busier tank...again the filtration is the determining factor here..

i do one male period.. anything more and the females get punked far to much. just my opinion here, but i also think demasoni are going to be a tough one for a first trip down african lane. ive tried starting with 15 in a 6 ft tank and they just killed themselves off, ended up having to sell em off as i got sick of finding dead fish. id sub them for acei (even tho acei get huge)

Just as pretty as demasoni but not near as mean are Pseudotropheus saulosi. A much better temperament on them. Might be worth the look. It's easier to change your stocking now rather than later.

If you decide to go with demasoni, I agree with upping the number to about a dozen.  I used to keep them years ago and was very lucky -- I started with five and was able to save the first couple of spawns to get my numbers up.  I saw a lot of chasing, but never experienced the kind of aggression that most people see with them.  They were one of my favorites!

Saulosi are a good choice as well, but with the females being yellowish in color, I don't think I'd mix them with the labs.

Ok, if I upped the number of demasoni, would I still be able to keep the other 2 species as well? The tank is a 4' long 55, and I'm still trying to get a hold of an "appropriate" level of overstocking.

If I scrapped the demasoni's what would be my other options?

I've thought about a spieces only tank with p saulosi, but I'd love to have more colors than just blue and yellow.

what would your ideal stocking be?

you wouldn't have to go species only with saulosi..

I think the issue with saulosi,at least for me is this.Only the males show the blue barring..  Going with a standard 1M/4F leaves only 1 blue barred fish in the whole tank.If you want to have a tank with blue bars,and saulosi,you have to get 3 males and 9 females....The colony I referred to earlier... If you did that it would be fine.. But then you should not keep the labs,because saulosi females are also yellow.. That's where Demasoni come into play... But  You could just try


1M/4F Cynotilapia of choice
1M/4F YellowLabs
1M/4F Rusty

That way you wouldn't have to get demasoni,they would be replaced by the Cynotilapia species.
Anthraxx,does give good advice,and is correct that Demasoni are not usually suggested for new mbuna keepers. But when you start with a colony,the chances for success are much better. I do think his experience with them is less the norm in that case,but also not a rare case by any means.
As I stated earlier demasoni are indeed the extra work fish.Also I have found sometimes that removing subdoms is not always the best course of action. If one male is too bullish,it may be he who has to go. Leaving the formerly,subdom male to become the dominant one. This practice can also backfire sometimes.The new dominant male may actually end up being more bullish than the one removed.For me it's easy because I'm allowed multiple tanks  throughout my home. That makes it much simpler to rehome,remove,or change out fish who don't foot the bill. but an extra 10 or 20 gallon tank should do just fine for a timeout demasoni.

As for ideal stock.. This would look best for you,while keeping the DWARF mbuna profile...

1M/4F Cyno.Sp. White top Hara
1M/4F Rusties
1M/4F Yellow Labs

If you want to overstock,simply add extra females of each species,something I always do..

There are other mbuna who can fit in a 55,that are not considered dwarf.  Anthraxx mentioned Acei,and for the reason of them getting as large as they do,I did not suggest them. Some mbuna keepers say they get to big for a 55,which honestly,just depends on whether or not your dominant male reaches a size of 8 inches or more. That's something that can happen,especially in the aquarium,but it doesn't always happen,and Acei are definitely more on the peaceful side in mbuna terms.

If you were to step away from dwarf mbuna something like this might look really cool

1M/4F Metriaclima Caillainos
1M/4FYellow Labs
1M/6F Ps. Cyaneorhabdos


Or..
1M/4F Ps. Acei
1M/4F  Metriaclima Sp. Dolphin.(Giant Demasoni)  which only look,not act like their dwarf counterpart
1M/4F Yellow Labs

I know you wanted a dwarf tank,which is why all my previous suggestions included no metriaclima species,or Acei,because those guys get so big. Still,it might help stir your imagination,if you think a little outside your own lines...

I should have also mentioned that  there are some real stunners in the Cynotilapia group...... 

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Nice cichlids. Master chi.  
And great advice. I learn new things here once awhile here.

Wow, thank you so much for your help! I'm thinking the Rusties and Labs plus a Cyno of choice would be prime for me. Now to just source my fish  

bronzefighter wrote:Now to just source my fish  

If not here on Washingtonfishbox.com or LFS. Go look at the wet spot.. heard they got alot of different african cichlids that you wont find here locally.

This is a great thread. I've never contemplated keeping Africans seriously. I think now for the lack of understanding how to house them. I've been following this thread since its creation. Something like this thread should be set as a Rift lake/African cichlid sticky...

master chi wrote:
Now choosing dwarf species isn't that difficult,but you really only need to know what exactly is a dwarf mbuna.
While many do say yellow Labs are dwarf mbuna,I have seen them get a little larger than 6'',so goes the same for Rusties.
While that size for those 2 species isn't common ,if they were to reach that size,they would not be dwarf mbuna.
Dwarf mbuna should not get larger than 4'',if so only to 5'' tops. That leaves the 2 previously stated species,as well as just about any Cynotilapia,Ps.Saulosi,and Ps.Demasoni.

Actually many of the Pseudotropheus species would be considered dwarf mbuna...and there are lots to chose from.  I have a Pseudotropheus and Cynotilapia species

Here's a link to cichlid-forum Pseudotropheus profiles (just click the titles)
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and Cynotilapia profiles
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cichlid-gal wrote:

master chi wrote:
Now choosing dwarf species isn't that difficult,but you really only need to know what exactly is a dwarf mbuna.
While many do say yellow Labs are dwarf mbuna,I have seen them get a little larger than 6'',so goes the same for Rusties.
While that size for those 2 species isn't common ,if they were to reach that size,they would not be dwarf mbuna.
Dwarf mbuna should not get larger than 4'',if so only to 5'' tops. That leaves the 2 previously stated species,as well as just about any Cynotilapia,Ps.Saulosi,and Ps.Demasoni.

Actually many of the Pseudotropheus species would be considered dwarf mbuna...and there are lots to chose from.  I have a Pseudotropheus and Cynotilapia species

Here's a link to cichlid-forum Pseudotropheus profiles (just click the titles)
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and Cynotilapia profiles
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Of those pseudotropheus in the link,Only Flavus,and Polit would be realistic options for dwarf keepers.
There is a couple other dwarf species in that list,but they would be almost impossible to find..

master chi wrote:

Of those pseudotropheus in the link,Only Flavus,and Polit would be realistic options for dwarf keepers.
There is a couple other dwarf species in that list,but they would be almost impossible to find..

Agreed...I have not seen many of those but I have seen Pseudotropheus sp. "Perspicax types" also although I understand they have personality issues  . And I have Polits  and the pictures I've seen of the Flavus group have been beautiful.

I've always wondered why rusties were considered dwarf mbuna because mine got quite large. The males are also more aggressive than I had expected. (That's my big bully on the banner from last month's photo contest. Look quick or he'll be gone soon!) If you get the ratio of male to female worked out, this shouldn't be a big problem.

The fish in my avatar is a Pseudotropheus flavus.  I've kept them for many years as well.  The males can look pretty spectacular, but the females are usually a drab color. That's something to consider if you are looking for lots of color -- what the females of the species look like.

It's been mentioned before about increasing your filtration, but I would also add that frequent and sizeable water changes are very important when you keep an overstocked tank.

I think the species you decided on sound good. It shouldn't be too hard to find them locally.  Check with Anthraxx for starters.

First off, I want to say thank you guys so much for your help. I'm not terribly worried about filtration or water changes, I can easily handle those things. One question that is nagging me though is in regards to overstocking.

The reason I've been adamant about have a dwarf tank is because I'd like as many fish as possible, and I feel that the size of my tank can be a limiting factor when choosing dwarf vs 'normal' mbuna.

Now, how much is too much when it comes to overstocking a mbuna tank?

For final stocking, I would go for 15, maybe 18 maximum, five of each species and maybe a couple additional of the Cynotilapia. I've never kept them, so not sure how big they get and if you could do a few extra of them.  When they are juvies, you can do more of each species, but will need to weed out any troublemakers or subdominant males that are getting picked on.  I think it's a good idea to start with more to make sure you have enough to get the proper ratios for your final stocking.  If you are doing three species, you will probably want to end up with one male to four females.  In my experience, I've found that one male or three or more males usually work, but two is always a problem!

So my opinion is to start with several of each species; watch their behavior and interaction and coloring as they mature to help determine males, females, bullies, etc.; and pull/rehome the extras to end up with about 15 total. Or you can do like I did and buy more tanks so you can keep them all.  

5 of each species. Unless bronefighter picks demasoni.. When I overstock,which I always do,I go with 1M/6F per species. so a total of 21 fish. surviving fry in the tank will of course add to that number.. I have closer to 25 right now in my dwarf tank. I think past 30 fish is probably too much.

Betty I think your large rusties are just an example of size in captivity. Many fish get much larger in captivity.I think it's mostly due to the fact that keepers tend to feed their fishy friends well. Whether that means more often than in the wild,or just of better quality food,that provides an enhanced amount of nutrients to their diet. Again, The dwarf rule is nothing more than 5'' full grown. If it's 6'' than that's average sized mbuna territory.

Well, I finally got my tank stocked! And unfortunately it seems that Mbuna are out of the picture for the time being. I traded some various fish for a superb breeding colony of about 20 F1 Aulonocara Lwanda. 3 males and the rest females, and they have been doing wonderfully so far. Maybe in the future mbuna will be an option  

Red Top Peacocks are gorgeous!!! You will definitely love keeping them. Good Luck bronzefighter.

great choice!!! keep in mind that the extra males may not work out long term, but GL for the time being. they definitely have a great start

bronzefighter wrote:Well, I finally got my tank stocked! And unfortunately it seems that Mbuna are out of the picture for the time being. I traded some various fish for a superb breeding colony of about 20 F1 Aulonocara Lwanda. 3 males and the rest females, and they have been doing wonderfully so far. Maybe in the future mbuna will be an option  

It's not real until here are pictures!  

Also, wetspot ships to most of Washington next day for $15. I have gone through them many times. Great advice, and thread guys. do nice to see good advice given to a new comer. And from many sources. I can't wait to see your tank, listen to the advice of the many experienced members and run with it. In a 6 months or so, pass it to the next new guy. This is what builds a strong hobby and community.

Lol, there's a page two

Well, I suppose I should post the pictures I promised you guys...

So, like I said before, I traded some fish and recieved a group of 20 F1 A. Lwanda. Current stocking in the tank is as follows:

20x A. Lwanda
1x ABN Pleco
1x Syno. Multi.
2x Red-Clawed Crabs

Here is a full tank shot:
BEFORE:
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AFTER:
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The 2 males here have staked out 2 different sides of this pile of rock, while a 3rd male hangs out on the far right side of the tank.
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My terrible potato phone doesn't do justice to the colors of these males, but as you can see they've colored up nicely since they settled in.
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Though the females are rather bland looking these fish do have a lot of personality and are very active. Over the past week or so the males have started doing there little dances and flaring and such, so hopefully I'll be seeing some fry soon!

On a sidenote, there is one female who only has one eye. She staked out the little outcropping on the bottom left side of the tank so that she can always see who is in front of her, and boy is she aggressive! I've nicknamed her Mrs. Snake Plissken

Nice or awesome setup. Wish I had rocks like those. Rocks heavy? Im just scared that my stand would break. Its all wood.

SiRWesDragon wrote:Nice or awesome setup. Wish I had rocks like those. Rocks heavy?  Im just scared that my stand would break. Its all wood.

Thanks! It's about 150lb of rock. Unfortunately something like reef rock or texas holey was much to expensive, and this pot rock was the next best thing. The downside is that is much denser. I have eggcrate on the bottom of the tank to distribute the weight load, and I'm too worried about the rocks shifting.

Also, a single vertical 2" by 2" stud can support something like 1.5 tons. Really rough calculation of the top of my head puts the weight of my tank at something like 600 lbs. As long as your weight is distributed and supported properly you should be fine!

fishNAbowl wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Awesome!

Hey, that looks great! I keep meaning to grab the fancy camera and take 'real' pictures...one day!

Congrats on your new group. I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy my africans.

Yup, threw the pict into photobucket, a little snip snip, splash of color, sharpened it up a bit and pow!

I have to say the tank looks really good. A few weeks ago when I seen the tank it was still pretty much a white out.

Thanks! Though not much beats that hazy mysterious look when you first start a new tank. The possibilities!

So, before I break out the champagne, can someone confirm for me that this female is holding? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

ba-bam youve got eggs. right around 18-20 days from now you need to isolate her or strip her. either way most will try to isolate their girls after about 10 days to help reduce stress on them. males will continue to harass and try to breed with them. since these are aged fish already id say there isnt much harm if you decide to strip them yourself. its really easy to do and plenty of videos on youtube about it. GL to ya, either way the babies will need somewhere to grow for a cpl of weeks at least.

Time to get yourself a 10 gallon fry tank!!!

Hooray!

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Unfortuantly I don't have any other tanks to isolate/strip/grow-out at the moment. So, I'll just hope for the best! You might see some wee F2 A. Lwanda fry on here soon!

master chi wrote:Time to get yourself a 10 gallon fry tank!!!

Maybe...I do have perfect spot for a little 20 long or a 10...

10g + sponge filter + fresh BBS = happy healthy fry its all part of keeping africans, gotta take them kids while the gettings good. dont worry sooner or later youll stop caring as it just keeps happening

Love lwanda! Great choice and congratulation on the eggs! Tank looks great!

Thanks! I was looking again and it looks like I have a 2nd female holding as well, though she's not as far along.