Dwarf Crayfish?

I just learned of these, has anyone had any experience? I have never seen them around, but I haven't been everywhere even in my immediate area.

They look like dwarf shrimp, but with a little more character... not as elegant, but I might like to give them a try.

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I don't know if this blue one is real, or a colorized version of an orange one, but it looks awesome:
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I may have just stumbled upon the newest trend after dwarf shrimp... 

dwarf crayfish (or any crayfish) is illegal to own as pets, now...with that said, there are some users on here that do have dwarf cajun crayfish. I'll leave it at that for now. lol =P

I have like 200 of these -.- blue and red

Illegal is illegal, but with that said, it's not like people are going to walk into your house and be like "Oh. You have crayfish. I'm calling the feds." lol.

Anywho, just keep it on the down low

Ive had my breeding pair forever and I'm not just gonna flush them lol but yeah I know they r illegal

The entire taxonomic family Cambaridae (contains all north american crayfish and all dwarf crayfish) is prohibited (purchase and sale, ownership, long glances, etc.) in this state due to short-sighted lawmakers and irresponsible fishermen.

They're very interesting to watch and keep, though I could never keep mine alive for very long (water is too soft, I think).  My last dwarf cajun disappeared a few months ago, I think.

I learn something new on this forum everyday...and here's the law

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and there are even some cichlids on the "regulated" list...wow...how does the state "regulate" fish ownership?

(2) Regulated aquatic animal species. The following species are classified as regulated aquatic animal species:
(a) Crustaceans:
All nonnative crustaceans classified as shellfish.
(b) Fish:
(i) All nonnative fish classified as food fish and game fish.
(ii) Family Cichlidae: Tilapia: All members of the genera Tilapia, Oneochromis, and Sartheradon.
(iii) Family Clupeidae: Alewife, Alosa pseudoharengus.
(iv) Family Cyprinidae:
(A) Common carp, koi, Cyprinus carpio.
(B) Goldfish, Carassius auratus.
(C) Tench, Tinca tinca.
(D) Grass carp (in the triploid form), Ctenopharyngodon idella.
(v) Family Poeciliidae: Mosquito fish, Gambusia affinis.
(c) Molluscs:
(i) All nonnative molluscs classified as shellfish.
(ii) Family Psammobiidae: Mahogany clam or purple varnish clam, Nuttalia obscurata.

cichlid-gal wrote:I learn something new on this forum everyday...and here's the law

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and there are even some cichlids on the "regulated" list...wow...how does the state "regulate" fish ownership?

According to this page:

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"regulated" means you can't release them into state waters.  That's common sense for most of us and definitely necessary.

Regulated aquatic animal species
These species are considered by the commission to have some beneficial use along with a moderate, but manageable risk of becoming an invasive species, and may not be released into state waters, except as provided in RCW 77.15.253. These species include commercial aquaculture species, and species listed by the commission as food fish or game fish.

It's section 1 of the link above that we have to worry about, the prohibited species.  "Prohibited" means:

Prohibited aquatic animal species - RCW 77.12.020
These species are considered by the commission to have a high risk of becoming an invasive species and may not be possessed, imported, purchased, sold, propagated, transported, or released into state waters except as provided in RCW 77.15.253. Which allows for the transport of prohibited aquatic animal species to the department, or to another destination designated by the director, in a manner designated by the director, for the purposes of identifying a species or reporting the presence of a species. The unlawful release of a prohibited aquatic animal species is a gross misdemeanor. A second violation within five years is a class C felony.


And here are the lucky critters:

(c) Crustaceans:
(i) Family Cercopagidae:
(A) Fish hook water flea, Cercopagis pengoi.
(B) Spiny water flea, Bythotrephes cederstroemi.
(ii) Family Grapsidae: Mitten crabs: All members of the genus Erochier.
(iii) Family Cambaridae: Crayfish: All genera, except a person may possess and transport dead prohibited crayfish species obtained under the department's recreational crayfishing rules (WAC 220-56-336 and 220-56-315). There is no daily limit, size limit, or sex restriction for prohibited crayfish species. All nonnative crayfish must be kept in a separate container from native crayfish. Release of any live crayfish species into waters other than the water being fished is prohibited.
(iv) Family Parastacidae: Crayfish: All genera except Engaeos, and except the species Cherax quadricarinatus, Cherax papuanus, and Cherax tenuimanus.
(v) Family Portunidae: European green crab, Carcinus maenas.
(vi) Family Spheromatidae: Burrowing isopod, Sphaeroma quoyanum.
(d) Fish:
(i) Family Amiidae: Bowfin, grinnel, or mudfish, Amia calva.
(ii) Family Channidae: China fish, snakeheads: All members of the genus Channa.
(iii) Family Characidae: Piranha or caribe: All members of the genera Pygocentrus, Rooseveltiella, and Serrasalmus.
(iv) Family Clariidae: Walking catfish: All members of the family.
(v) Family Cyprinidae:
(A) Fathead minnow, Pimephales promelas.
(B) Carp, Bighead, Hypopthalmichthys nobilis.
(C) Carp, Black, Mylopharyngodon piceus.
(D) Carp, Grass (in the diploid form), Ctenopharyngodon idella.
(E) Carp, Silver, Hypopthalmichthys molitrix.
(F) Ide, silver orfe or golden orfe, Leuciscus idus.
(G) Rudd, Scardinius erythropthalmus.
(vi) Family Gobiidae: Round goby, Neogobius melanostomus.
(vii) Family Esocidae: Northern pike, Esox lucius: A person may possess and transport dead prohibited Northern pike obtained under the department's recreational sport fishing rules (WAC 220-56-100 and 220-56-115). There is no minimum size, no daily limit, and no possession limit. Release of any live Northern pike into water other than the water being fished is prohibited.
(viii) Family Lepisosteidae: Gar-pikes: All members of the family.

Some of you may not know this, but several shops in Seattle and several individuals I know very well, have all been investigated in the past 1 to 2 years for selling, owning, purchasing illegal species. I just read an article I think 2 months ago that was about the fish and wildlife busting a man off of CL for trying to sell illegal fish.

You may think that it will never happen, but it did for a lot of these folks, and most of them were investigated because their name was dropped or because their name was found in documents.

As trivial as we all think this is, I have heard rumors that it is going to get worse. So if it were me, I would keep my mouth closed and just keep it to myself, its not worth the headache.

Ive heard that sometimes dept of wildlife will check forums and craigslist ads and follow up on illegal species.

How about adding the law including all illegal species of animals and plants to the general forum rules and a sticky in the Market ?

These issues keep coming up; we should address them head on instead of on a case-by-case basis. I'd be happy to start a sticky if moderators promise to make it sticky and add it to the forum rules; I'm not going to waste my time otherwise.

I wouldn't mind making it a sticky (If I knew how. lol... look at me, already not knowing how to be a moderator. LOL)

Nevermind, I found how to sticky topics. Neat. So if the chance comes, and is approved, then I shall sticky thee. =D

... wait that didn't sound right... 

pbmax wrote:How about adding the law including all illegal species of animals and plants to the general forum rules and a sticky in the Market ?

These issues keep coming up; we should address them head on instead of on a case-by-case basis.  I'd be happy to start a sticky if moderators promise to make it sticky and add it to the forum rules; I'm not going to waste my time otherwise.

Thats Corys call, but do members ever read the rules? They never do in the market section. LOL so why for this? I dont mean to be a Debbie downer, LOL. Yes, I think that its a good idea, but will it ever get read?

madness wrote:

pbmax wrote:How about adding the law including all illegal species of animals and plants to the general forum rules and a sticky in the Market ?

These issues keep coming up; we should address them head on instead of on a case-by-case basis.  I'd be happy to start a sticky if moderators promise to make it sticky and add it to the forum rules; I'm not going to waste my time otherwise.

Thats Corys call, but do members ever read the rules?  They never do in the market section. LOL so why for this?  I dont mean to be a Debbie downer, LOL.  Yes, I think that its a good idea, but will it ever get read?  

At least it would be easier to just re-direct them to one post, rather than having to try and explain something over and over again when it happens.

madness wrote:

pbmax wrote:How about adding the law including all illegal species of animals and plants to the general forum rules and a sticky in the Market ?

These issues keep coming up; we should address them head on instead of on a case-by-case basis.  I'd be happy to start a sticky if moderators promise to make it sticky and add it to the forum rules; I'm not going to waste my time otherwise.

Thats Corys call, but do members ever read the rules?  They never do in the market section. LOL so why for this?  I dont mean to be a Debbie downer, LOL.  Yes, I think that its a good idea, but will it ever get read?  

Given that prohibited species aren't currently listed in the rules, fishbox members will have great difficulty reading them there. This way it may even save you some typing.

PokeSephiroth wrote:

madness wrote:

pbmax wrote:How about adding the law including all illegal species of animals and plants to the general forum rules and a sticky in the Market ?

These issues keep coming up; we should address them head on instead of on a case-by-case basis.  I'd be happy to start a sticky if moderators promise to make it sticky and add it to the forum rules; I'm not going to waste my time otherwise.

Thats Corys call, but do members ever read the rules?  They never do in the market section. LOL so why for this?  I dont mean to be a Debbie downer, LOL.  Yes, I think that its a good idea, but will it ever get read?  

At least it would be easier to just re-direct them to one post, rather than having to try and explain something over and over again when it happens.

Exactly.

And the laws aren't particularly clear, especially when it comes to noxious weeds (federal and state laws).

No, i dont disagree, I like the idea. I will speak on behalf of Cory. get it done and we will make it a sticky.

HOORAY!   And now I have work to do...ugh.  

Wow, I thought that might get things started, but not in the way I was expecting!

Sorry to bring up something illegal! I had no idea, but I guess I should have figured there was a reason no one was talking about them on here, when they are actually pretty cool.

So, was the issue for these that people were using them as bait or something, and they could have been released into native waters? I don't know what their temperature tolerance is, but if they are named the "cajun" crayfish, I can't imagine they like the rather cold rivers which come down from the mountains around here. By the time rivers get to cajun country, they should be a good 60-70F, and our rivers even near the sound average probably 50F at the warmest time of the year.

So, I'm curious as to why these are such a big issue?

LuminousAphid wrote:So, I'm curious as to why these are such a big issue?

One word for you my friend:  Politics

LuminousAphid wrote:
So, was the issue for these that people were using them as bait or something, and they could have been released into native waters? I don't know what their temperature tolerance is, but if they are named the "cajun" crayfish, I can't imagine they like the rather cold rivers which come down from the mountains around here. By the time rivers get to cajun country, they should be a good 60-70F, and our rivers even near the sound average probably 50F at the warmest time of the year.

So, I'm curious as to why these are such a big issue?

LJ is right.  Arguably dwarf crays represent no danger to the ecology of this state in any way, shape, or form.  They are, however, in the same taxonomic family as all of the rest of the north american crays, like procambarus clarkii.  P. Clarkii have established invasive populations in this state thanks to fishermen using them as bait.  So the geniuses in Olympia decided to use a scorched earth tactic (ban the family) instead of banning individual species.

I kept dwarf crays in the past - they were purchased before I fully understood the breadth of the law.  Once I got my head on straight (or crooked, depending on how you look at it), I stopped buying crays and started spreading the word about the law.  I don't like it either, not at all.

That said, the law is the law and this forum needs to adhere to it.

Ah, I see. That makes much more sense.

I have heard we have crayfish around here, anyone know of any good spots to catch some (for food purposes, I promise I don't have a tank big enough for a big crayfish)? And do I need a license?

You don't need a license to catch crays here, though you must make sure you're catching in season.  Daily limits are 10lbs in shell of signal crayfish (native) or unlimited non-native (clarkii, etc.).  The catch is that you cannot remove non-native crays from the waterway alive - you must euthanize them before you take them away from the stream, river, lake, puddle, what have you.

See page 131:

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Very well said pbmax.  

I like the sticky idea.

Yep lots of politics... like why are piranha not legal here but they are in Oregon... politics.

Not that I would ever want to own said fish.

OKAY, proposed rules sticky added to Forum operations!

I know some good spots to catch Cary's here on the east side, do not know about the west. Shores around port of Garfield are terrific.

seems like a great point to ask a question... do bluegill or pumpkinseed sunfish fall under said illegal law? always wanted to try my hand at some sunfish.

I believe they do. I remember a guy came into Midway and wanted to give them the fish and Charles refused to take them because they are illegal, and he didnt want Midway to be fined/shutdown for it.

That may be a matter of native collection laws, rather than prohibited species.  I can't find bluegill or pumpkinseeds in the state's prohibited list.

I better do more research and add native collection laws to my post.

This may apply:

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Public display would certainly cover selling them in a fish store. It may not, however, cover keeping them in an aquarium for yourself.

Late to the conversation, but you asked where you could catch native crayfish..... I used to catch them all the time unintentionally at alder lake..... It's near Elbe wa near the entrance to mount rainier national park for those not familiar with the area..... I never kept any, as I was actually trying for fish( placed the worm too close to the bottom and the crayfish  would go after them like crazy!  


Now that we have discussed this, I really think we need to have a crayfish boil( both to support the overpopulation of invasive species and more importantly because they are delicious)

Interesting. When did this law go into effect? Not to long ago I was eyeballing 2-3 different species at Bridges Pet. There was electric blues, tangerine oranges. I've had a few myself. They are not real good tank mates though to small fish or plants...

Once I had a 14" freshwater prawn. It was a real meany. When my Spotfaced Pike got about a foot in length it tore it into pieces...lol!

From the WAC link it looks like the law went into effect in 2002. I'm not sure if all crayfish were banned at that time...

pbmax wrote:You don't need a license to catch crays here, though you must make sure you're catching in season.  Daily limits are 10lbs in shell of signal crayfish (native) or unlimited non-native (clarkii, etc.).  The catch is that you cannot remove non-native crays from the waterway alive - you must euthanize them before you take them away from the stream, river, lake, puddle, what have you.

See page 131:

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Cool, I might have to go try catching some of these sometime. I have never looked for them, but I imagine they can't be too terribly hard to find... I would assume the more detritus in the water, the more crayfish

I used to catch them as a kid - it was a lot of fun at the time. I wasn't terribly good at it, but a bucket and a stick did the trick

pbmax wrote:From the WAC link it looks like the law went into effect in 2002.  I'm not sure if all crayfish were banned at that time...

Just a couple years ago you could buy them at the Asian markets, but not any more.

So is this why Olive Garden got rid of the crayfish in their seafood Alfredo?

And back in the topic, I was in a pet shop a couple of weeks ago that had blue lobsters for sale. It will remain nameless, but I will let them know about the legality of their stock

Just out of curiosity I looked up the blue lobster on a mail order site. They said they could not ship to Florida, Maine or Wisconsin. No mention of our state.   Is there an exception?

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I figured crayfish and lobster are one and the same when it come to freshwater inverts

DMD123 wrote:Just out of curiosity I looked up the blue lobster on a mail order site. They said they could not ship to Florida, Maine or Wisconsin. No mention of our state.   Is there an exception?

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People don't understand the law; that's the exception.

Blue lobsters are typically procambarus alleni - in the Cambaridae family, therefore prohibited.

Ive seen blue lobsters in the past on Craigslist and seem like in a store but I cant remember where, its been quite a while back.

Edit: This post was in response to a post by earthfish claiming that I have no idea what I'm talking about since her mother, a paralegal, could not find the information referenced below.

Edit2: I swear there was a post!  I'm not crazy!  I have no idea what happened to it, but it was there.  Scout's honor.

What, then, does your mother make of RCW 77.12.020 which defines:

Prohibited aquatic animal species - RCW 77.12.020
These species are considered by the commission to have a high risk of becoming an invasive species and may not be possessed, imported, purchased, sold, propagated, transported, or released into state waters except as provided in RCW 77.15.253. Which allows for the transport of prohibited aquatic animal species to the department, or to another destination designated by the director, in a manner designated by the director, for the purposes of identifying a species or reporting the presence of a species. The unlawful release of a prohibited aquatic animal species is a gross misdemeanor. A second violation within five years is a class C felony.


And WAC 220-12-090 section 1.c.iii, which reads:

WAC 220-12-090
Agency filings affecting this section
Classification—Nonnative aquatic animal species.

(1) Prohibited aquatic animal species. The following species are classified as prohibited aquatic animal species:

(c) Crustaceans:

(iii) Family Cambaridae: Crayfish: All genera, except a person may possess and transport dead prohibited crayfish species obtained under the department's recreational crayfishing rules (WAC 220-56-336 and 220-56-315). There is no daily limit, size limit, or sex restriction for prohibited crayfish species. All nonnative crayfish must be kept in a separate container from native crayfish. Release of any live crayfish species into waters other than the water being fished is prohibited.

Please tell me how, exactly, it is that I have no idea.

DMD123 wrote:Ive seen blue lobsters in the past on Craigslist and seem like in a store but I cant remember where, its been quite a while back.

I just saw an add on CL where the guy is selling RBP. Again, oblivious or just dont care?

Both, I imagine. It doesn't seem to me that the state has worked very hard to inform people about the breadth of the law and enforcement has been selective at best.