What tank should I use?

Hi guys,

So we are planned to move in about two weeks and fortunately the house we are moving in has a small room that is perfect for Fish Breeding room , emersed plant set ups, and Planted tank grow out. honesty I could only probably fit 50-70gallon worth of fish tank. The fish that i'm planning to breed are differemt strains of BN plecos, Guppies, some shrimp and bettas(not very sure). Question is what will be the best size of a tank i should use for Breeding and Grow-out per strain/type of breed? Is 5 gallon seems ok, or 10 is decent? or nothing less than 15? I want a uniformed size of tanks so I can lay them out neatly and leveled.

Thank you,
Jeth

10 is perfect for shrimp and bristlenose together. Guppies are fine in a 10 as well, but the numbers will quickly swell and you will need two separate growouts for them, 2x 30s would be perfect, one for females and the other for males. If you have a few breeding pairs of bristlenose, you will want those 30gallons as growouts for them as well. In all honesty though, people prefer 20gal long tanks for bristlenose to breed, as it has a larger footprint and you can keep more pairs in there. Are you planning on breeding two of the same type, or crossing them?

10's are the easiest to manage for what youre looking to do. Set a rack up so the tanks are longwise. Depending on the width, you can get 5 tanks to a shelf, and make a rack with a bottom, ground level of tanks, then 2, maybe, 3 shelves high, depending on your rack, and floor. 50g's on the floor, another 100 on the rack. if you can manage do a "L" shape/right angle, or a rack on each opposing wall, and you can double this.

CrazedAce wrote:10 is perfect for shrimp and bristlenose together. Guppies are fine in a 10 as well, but the numbers will quickly swell and you will need two separate growouts for them, 2x 30s would be perfect, one for females and the other for males. If you have a few breeding pairs of bristlenose, you will want those 30gallons as growouts for them as well. In all honesty though, people prefer 20gal long tanks for bristlenose to breed, as it has a larger footprint and you can keep more pairs in there. Are you planning on breeding two of the same type, or crossing them?

I was thinking Putting my mixed same sized shrimps on 1 Tank itself since the bn plecos might harm them. do you think it'll be an issue? BN tends to suddenly move from one place to another and the shrimpies might get harmed or something.

Thats funny I Just traded my 20g Long to a 60g. I have a Starlight L182 Pleco that i will find a pair. I want them to be pure L182 and thats how they been bred before anyways. I have a LF Albino BN Pleco that has two SF Albino BN Females. and I also actually have a SF Albino Orange Pleco which is a male. The way I visualize my breeding room is. Every tank i see. there's a pair/trio of each kind. I Can mix the LF and SF Albino Plecos. I have 2 LF Green Dragon pleco that i will find a mate when they reach certain age.. The only thing that is giving me hard time is grow outs. Lets say My LF male bred with 2 SF female in tank 1. after spawning The females will go to my community tank and rest foe a week or so Then i go introduce them with my SF Orange Male on tank 2. should i just let the fry stay with the tank on their own respective tanks? Thanks!

PvtPain66k wrote:10's are the easiest to manage for what youre looking to do. Set a rack up so the tanks are longwise. Depending on the width, you can get 5 tanks to a shelf, and make a rack with a bottom, ground level of tanks, then 2, maybe, 3 shelves high, depending on your rack, and floor. 50g's on the floor, another 100 on the rack. if you can manage do a "L" shape/right angle, or a rack on each opposing wall, and you can double this.

The way the room was set-up is like a 3-1/2 feet by 12 Feet with a 7 Feet working table Really compacted. I think 10 gal tanks are the least i could do atm. There will be no place for a rack but i can plan for it once we settled. I can imagine your idea. It will be a little packed but it'll have lots of place for all the pairs+frys. Once i set up a 10 Gal tanks I will take a pic and maybe you guys can give me ideas for improvement. Find the room as a good breeding room. Less Noise, Looks like a mini Workshop. lots of shelves. Thanks!

As for the shrimps if you don't care if they interbreed with different color strain. Mixed them. if you want to focus on red cherry, yellows, tigers, crystals. Separate them in 5gal tanks. Sponge filters in there. With a 40gal air pump with split air outlets to each tank connected to a sponge filter. Water changes is a breeze.  Put moss for baby shrimps. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

SiRWesDragon wrote:As for the shrimps if you don't care if they interbreed with different color strain. Mixed them. if you want to focus on red cherry, yellows, tigers, crystals. Separate them in 5gal tanks. Sponge filters in there. With a 40gal air pump with split air outlets to each tank connected to a sponge filter. Water changes is a breeze.  Put moss for baby shrimps. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Okay Great!! Thanks But now i think i care on their breeds lol. Pure strain is always better. Maybe i'll start with red cherry since binbin9 suggested that to me. Do you agree Wes?

There is an Craiglist ad for super red cherries in Issaquah for $3 each.  Bright red the better. The saying" Pay for what you get".
Since your doing small tanks of 5 gal each of each species of shrimp. Copy the way the LFS have them set up. Side by side. In each tank a few low light plants like java fern, java moss, anubias tied down on rocks and wood pieces.  Make sure add dried almond leaves to help shrimps with better immune system. For calcium i use cuttlefish bone tied down with a rock. It will float. The shrimps eats some of it to increase their calcium needs. Do not over feed cause you will get planaria worms or ammonia spike. 
Substrate can be pool sand (washed with hot water for poss chemicals) or mountain lane silica sand (wash the same).
The sponge filter got from ebay. Works great. Buy now so when youre ready items arrives on time 2-3 wks.

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Oh never use other filters that sucks water up in a tube. Even with a shrimp guard. It will kill small shrimplets.  I dont use it anymore.  Learned the hard way.  Those filter guard things dont work on shrimplets. In the picture I have a HOB but its not on. Just hanging there. Dont know where to put it yet.

I clean my Rena XP2 canister weekly. I pull out anywhere from several Malawa shrimp EVERY time. I have a sponge over the intake too.
Not that you would actually wanna use a canister, unless your doing a larger size tank.

SiRWesDragon wrote:
      There is an Craiglist ad for super red cherries in Issaquah for $3 each.  Bright red the better. The saying" Pay for what you get".
      Since your doing small tanks of 5 gal each of each species of shrimp. Copy the way the LFS have them set up. Side by side. In each tank a few low light plants like java fern, java moss, anubias tied down on rocks and wood pieces.  Make sure add dried almond leaves to help shrimps with better immune system. For calcium i use cuttlefish bone tied down with a rock. It will float. The shrimps eats some of it to increase their calcium needs. Do not over feed cause you will get planaria worms or ammonia spike. 
       Substrate can be pool sand (washed with hot water for poss chemicals) or mountain lane silica sand (wash the same).
       The sponge filter got from ebay. Works great. Buy now so when youre ready items arrives on time 2-3 wks.

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I don't have a tank for those for sale. And binbin9 has some for sale to so i might just have to contact him once i get a setup. Fortunately i have sponge filters exactly like the ones in the pic. I also have the ground round sponge filter on diff sizes that you can either connect to an airline tubing or hob pipes.. thanks!

PvtPain66k wrote:I clean my Rena XP2 canister weekly. I pull out anywhere from several Malawa shrimp EVERY time. I have a sponge over the intake too.
Not that you would actually wanna use a canister, unless your doing a larger size tank.

Yeah sponge filters is a big thing. Like i told Wes I have some sitting around and will actually be ordering more at ebay. I might just do canister when i get my tropical community tank running. Thanks

jettej wrote:I was thinking Putting my mixed same sized shrimps on 1 Tank itself since the bn plecos might harm them. do you think it'll be an issue? BN tends to suddenly move from one place to another and the shrimpies might get harmed or something.

Thats funny I Just traded my 20g Long to a 60g. I have a Starlight L182 Pleco that i will find a pair. I want them to be pure L182 and thats how they been bred before anyways. I have a LF Albino BN Pleco that has two SF Albino BN Females. and I also actually have a SF Albino Orange Pleco which is a male. The way I visualize my breeding room is. Every tank i see. there's a pair/trio of each kind. I Can mix the LF and SF Albino Plecos. I have 2 LF Green Dragon pleco that i will find a mate when they reach certain age.. The only thing that is giving me hard time is grow outs. Lets say My LF male bred with 2 SF female in tank 1. after spawning The females will go to my community tank and rest foe a week or so Then i go introduce them with my SF Orange Male on tank 2. should i just let the fry stay with the tank on their own respective tanks?  Thanks!

First off, keep shrimp species separated , or all the interbreeding will result in a wild-type looking shrimp with dull colors. The plecos may hurt them when they spaz out, but I haven't had too big of a problem with it. I have a trio of 1m/2f BN plecos in with my shrimp colony, and I see a dead shrimp here and there, but more shrimplets to replace them and then some.

Your concept of removing the females kind of bewilders me, why not just add the orange one into the mix? Just make sure there are 4 or more caves in the tank and there would be no aggression (unless the LF is substantially bigger than your orange one). But like I said before, perhaps a 20gal long would be more ideal for that, giving more room for the adults and the inevitable fry. The fry can stay with the parents for however long you want them to, but just remember as they grow older they will need their own individual hiding spots or aggression will break loose and you will start seeing dead ones left and right.

I've used a 28gal for 10 fry and there has been no aggression all the way to adolescence where I can now sex them. But I did that for breeding stock, and sold the ones I did not need much earlier. Right now I've moved my month old fry into tanks with the ratio of 1:1gal, but I may have to increase that to 2:1gal as I have quite a bit of them. I wish I had more grow out tanks!!!

Also, make sure your tanks have some form of aquarium safe wood in them, as that is a HUGE part of a staple diet for them. If you don't have any, their growth will take much, much, much longer. I'm sure I'm missing some other helpful advice, but if you have any more questions I will be happy to help further.

Here is the ad Jettej.
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CrazedAce wrote:

jettej wrote:I was thinking Putting my mixed same sized shrimps on 1 Tank itself since the bn plecos might harm them. do you think it'll be an issue? BN tends to suddenly move from one place to another and the shrimpies might get harmed or something.

Thats funny I Just traded my 20g Long to a 60g. I have a Starlight L182 Pleco that i will find a pair. I want them to be pure L182 and thats how they been bred before anyways. I have a LF Albino BN Pleco that has two SF Albino BN Females. and I also actually have a SF Albino Orange Pleco which is a male. The way I visualize my breeding room is. Every tank i see. there's a pair/trio of each kind. I Can mix the LF and SF Albino Plecos. I have 2 LF Green Dragon pleco that i will find a mate when they reach certain age.. The only thing that is giving me hard time is grow outs. Lets say My LF male bred with 2 SF female in tank 1. after spawning The females will go to my community tank and rest foe a week or so Then i go introduce them with my SF Orange Male on tank 2. should i just let the fry stay with the tank on their own respective tanks?  Thanks!

First off, keep shrimp species separated , or all the interbreeding will result in a wild-type looking shrimp with dull colors. The plecos may hurt them when they spaz out, but I haven't had too big of a problem with it. I have a trio of 1m/2f BN plecos in with my shrimp colony, and I see a dead shrimp here and there, but more shrimplets to replace them and then some.

Your concept of removing the females kind of bewilders me, why not just add the orange one into the mix? Just make sure there are 4 or more caves in the tank and there would be no aggression (unless the LF is substantially bigger than your orange one). But like I said before, perhaps a 20gal long would be more ideal for that, giving more room for the adults and the inevitable fry. The fry can stay with the parents for however long you want them to, but just remember as they grow older they will need their own individual hiding spots or aggression will break loose and you will start seeing dead ones left and right.

I've used a 28gal for 10 fry and there has been no aggression all the way to adolescence where I can now sex them. But I did that for breeding stock, and sold the ones I did not need much earlier. Right now I've moved my month old fry into tanks with the ratio of 1:1gal, but I may have to increase that to 2:1gal as I have quite a bit of them. I wish I had more grow out tanks!!!

Also, make sure your tanks have some form of aquarium safe wood in them, as that is a HUGE part of a staple diet for them. If you don't have any, their growth will take much, much, much longer. I'm sure I'm missing some other helpful advice, but if you have any more questions I will be happy to help further.

Yes Separating shrimp is my new plan. I thought of it since i keep my Guppies on the same strain(same concept)
I will not risk the safety of shrimp so I won't combine them. I will Post a reply with my planned tanks based on this thread.

I agree on you having a doubt on my Female Transfer system. I think I'll end up stressing them out and not spawn + DIE!
Maybe I need to trade my regular 20 gal tall to a 20+ gallon long tanks.

I will stop by Jerry's @Kent Wa. And grab a few CHOLLAs!! I have a mopani wood and A bogwood as well. My Orange and L183 Starlight loves it.

Oh 1 more thing what would be cost effective and Best Breeding Cave material? (Rock Slate, Bamboo Coals, Ceramic, Terracota, or anything else???) i'm planning to buy a Bulk size Since i will have a pleco Factory and for my Community tank as well.

I have a few LFS that will take 1.5"+ for store credit. i think this is fair.

SiRWesDragon wrote:Here is the ad Jettej.  
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Thanks. I think he'll have this sale for a while. since he specifically breeds them and not to happen that he accidentally just have babies. I will contact him and maybe just save a contact number.

Here's my partial Plan Just for breeder tanks...

Will go start with one of each tank and go from there.
Filter wise I will use sponge Filters

1x 5G-Red Cherry Shrimp
Substrate: Will try Wes's Pool Soil and Black 30 Grit MIX (Which I have some)

1x 20G-SF+LF Albino/Orange BN Pleco
NO Substrate
Cholla Woods
Bogwood
Mopani Wood
Moss

1x 10G-Guppy OR Betta (Depends if I decided I like to go back with bettas)
Moss

The green dragon and L183 will stay at the community tank until they get their own pairs and have 10G each with bare ground.

Looks good. As for caves, not sure if there is a cheap method or not. The males like tight cave entrances so they can trap the females. Here's a start;
Pleco logs: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Cichlid stones: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Or you can silicone a couple clay pots together and drill out one side...

Thanks Crazed. I think I'll use A terracotta method. I Just gotta find some clear acrylic sheets. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Just gotta know where i can get my Materials. I know lowes have terracotta or home depot. not sure with acrylic sheets Good thing is they are next to each other on my area Wish me luck. I also found a Bamboo coal that is on auction. I'm thinking spending $10-$12 for 6+2(Extra) 5CM. from hongkong.

I was inspired by a similar idea, but instead took 20min to craft this:
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I used a drill and a smaller bit to drill holes and then carve out a space that should be perfect for blocking the females in. A little silicone around the lip, and some on the outside for good measure. 3pk of small terracotta pots from the dollar store for $1 total, $6 for enough silicone for 100 of these. Just made it today, hoping it works out okay.

That's amazing! Less Cutting les materials and less time. A++++

I will go to a dollar store now and check them out. So make sure its aquarium grade silicone right?

No such thing as "aquarium grade" silicone. It's just 100% Silicone. It's called "aquarium grade" because it's sold "for aquariums", through pet stores, at a MASSIVE markup.

But some people prefer the "aquarium" silicone sold in those small tubes, rather than chance their tanks with another silicone. The major thing is to make sure it doesn't have mildew resistance.

PvtPain66k wrote:No such thing as "aquarium grade" silicone. It's just 100% Silicone. It's called "aquarium grade" because it's sold "for aquariums", through pet stores, at a MASSIVE markup.

PvtPain66k is right. Cause you can buy that stuff at hardware stores. Its just you got look for it and it says "aquarium safe" on the back. Its plain silicone with less additives. Its cheaper too.

If it has "mildew resistant", it is NOT 100% SILICONE. Mildew resistant would be an additive, lowering the % of silicone, to increase the % of mildew resistant. IE, not 100% Silicone.  

Thanks! That all made sense guys. Good thing i didn't pick any of the materials yet. I checked Walmart for their terracotta pots and they where too small. I'll check my local $1 store if not LOWES and HomeDepot is really my last place to go to.

Like this silicone from johnsons hardware in maple valley but I bet you McLendons also has it.
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Great I will do some Fish Project tomorrow. Thanks Wes!