i started a planted tank

first off hi. this is my first post on fish box.

i have been out of the hobby for 8months due to me moving from iowa to washington. dont regret it. but i wanted to get back into the hobby.
im starting with a 10 gallon and gonna start with plants first, then maybe add a few small fish. but i want to use this tank as a step towards a bigger tank. i thinking a 56 column but not to sure yet.

this is what i have so far

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i need a air pump, lighting, aquaclear filter, heater, and a stand. i am thinking about trying LED lights
and as far as plants go. NO CLUE. there is many to pick from but i think im gonna try something easy.

i plan to have this tank running by mid February

comments tips are welcome

Looks like your off to a good start.

first off welcome ! as for your LED lighting look into topdogsellers single brights on ebay. i love them and they have stood the test of time by still all working like a charm (more then i can say for an eheim 6g kit i got) also the 56 column is a wonderful tank size to go with. its perfect for setting up a nice breeding pair of ca/sa, some tetras, maybe swordtails, or other oddballs. anyways sry for the lengthy response and WELCOME!

The 56g column is one of those cool sizes. I think Anthraxx and I are the only ones on this site with them. So join the club and get yours!

I'm with Anthraxx on the LED lights from topdogsellers on eBay. I bought from them a couple of months ago and I haven't been disappointed their stuff is good quality and like a fourth the price as anything else. I love to buy American made but in this case saving $300 bucks for a light was a no brainier ( cause that means more fish money )

Welcome

Hi All,

The Single Bright lights listed on Ebay are made by Beamworks. I have a question; has anyone locally checked the PAR rating of the Beamworks fixtures? At 0.06 watts per LED the 24" - 30" fixture with 78 LED's has only 4.68 watts of output.

I have been testing 22" - 20 watt led lamp arrays and they provide adequate lighting for growing most aquatic plant species with a PAR value of 47 at a 18" depth (it is also available in other lengths and watt ratings). I question whether 4.68 watts of LED's can provide the PAR values necessary for good plant growth. Here is an good thread on LED lights and fixtures [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on The Planted Tank (TPT) forum. Unfortunately, PAR rating information on the Beamworks fixtures is not currently available.

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I have the Beamsworks LED's on both my 56g and my 210g. I do not raise plants so I cant comment on that. But here is something I do notice, algae growth. In my 210g I went from 4 T5HO bulbs to 2 36" single brights and I have the light on the same amount of time (timers) and notice an increase in algae growth. On my 56g I use a 24" single bright on a 30" tank and virtually have zero algae. I know there are tons of factors involved, but I still think its weird.

Seattle_Aquarist wrote:Hi All,

The Single Bright lights listed on Ebay are made by Beamworks. I have a question; has anyone locally checked the PAR rating of the Beamworks fixtures? At 0.06 watts per LED the 24" - 30" fixture with 78 LED's has only 4.68 watts of output.

I have been testing 22" - 20 watt led lamp arrays and they provide adequate lighting for growing most aquatic plant species with a PAR value of 47 at a 18" depth (it is also available in other lengths and watt ratings). I question whether 4.68 watts of LED's can provide the PAR values necessary for good plant growth. Here is an good thread on LED lights and fixtures [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on The Planted Tank (TPT) forum. Unfortunately, PAR rating information on the Beamworks fixtures is not currently available.

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PAR has nothing to do with the amount of light a fixture gives. The word PAR is given to outside light bulbs (ie; PAR30, PAR38 etc....) PAR is just telling you the size of the bulb, where this same distinction given to inside lights is an R rating (ie: R30, R38 etc....) Different types of lights give off different color spectrum and can also give off more or less LUMENS based on the lamp rating (ie: 10K lamp, 6.5K, etc...)

So not knowing much about which color of light or the best number of LUMENS (Lumens is a rating of the amount of light the fixture or bulb gives off) to grow plants effectively, I can only comment as to what you would need to look for.


I have 2 x 36" LED fixtures from the same company, (beamworks) 1 of them puts out 900 Lumens the other 3300 lumens. The LEDs both use the same amount of energy (wattage) but the one fixture is a high output, therefore the brighter LEDs.

What you probably need to find out is what color spectrum of light grows plants the best. I would assume the closest to the color of the Sun, and I believe that is a 6.5K Bulb on a T5 florescent fixture. As for an LED fixture, I have no idea. I have read some articles that say adding a few RED LEDs in your LED fixture helps to best harness and project that perfect color spectrum. I have also seen these for sale, and they are not cheap. But again, I dont grow plants, so I am not sure as to what actually works best.

Well I am not going to change the above, but I just found another definition to PAR. The PAR that I was referring (as I am an electrician and this is the term we use (Parabolic Aluminized Reflector)) I just found that the other defintion of PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) is exactly what you may need to find. It designates the spectral range (wave band) of solar radiation from 400 to 700 nanometers that photosynthetic organisms are able to use in the process of photosynthesis. This spectral region corresponds more or less with the range of light visible to the human eye. Photosynthetically Active Radiation is needed for photosynthesis and plant growth. Higher PAR promotes plant growth, and monitoring PAR is important to ensure plants are receiving adequate light for this process.

With that said, I am not sure what the PAR rating is on these LED fixtures, which would be nice to find out. I will do some research.

A couple more tid bits of info:

Unlike lumens, which measure what the human eye can see, PAR is the objective measurement of the total light emitted by a lamp in the spectal region of plant response. In the hobbyist's terms, PAR measures the amount of light energy actually useable for photosynthesis. This is useful information for those desiring to propagate corals.

PAR Watts for Plants

Watts is an objective measure of energy being used or emitted by a lamp each second. Energy itself is measured in joules, and 1 joule per second is called a watt. A 100 watt incandescent bulb uses up 100 joules of electrical energy every second. How much light energy is it generating? About 6 joules per second or 6 watts, but the efficiency of the lamp is only 6%, a rather dismal number. The rest of the energy is dissipated mainly as heat. Modern discharge lamps like high pressure sodium (HPS) and metal halide convert (typically) 30% to 40% of the electrical energy into light. They are significantly more efficient than incandescent bulbs.

Since plants use energy between 400 and 700 nanometers and light in this region is called Photosynthetically Active Radiation or PAR, we could measure the total amount of energy emitted per second in this region and call it PAR watts. This is an objective measure in contrast to lumens which is a subjective measure since it is based on the response of the subjects (humans). PAR watts directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis.

The output of a 400 watt incandescent bulb is about 25 watts of light, a 400 watt metal halide bulb emits about 140 watts of light. If PAR is considered to correspond more or less to the visible region, then a 400 watt metal halide lamp provides about 140 watts of PAR. A 400 watt HPS lamps has less PAR, typically 120 to 128 watts, but because the light is yellow it is rated at higher lumens (for the human eye).

'Illumination' for plants is measured in PAR watts per square meter. There is no specific name for this unit but it is referred to as "irradiance" and written, for example, as 25 watts/square meter or 25 w/m2.


Photons

Another means of measuring light quantity for plant growth involves the understanding that light is always emitted or absorbed in discrete packets called "photons." These packets or photons are the minimum units of energy transactions involving light. For example, if a certain photosynthetic reaction occurs through absorption of one photon of light, then it is sensible to determine how many photons are falling on the plant each second. Also, since only photons in the PAR region of the spectrum are active in creating photosynthesis, it makes sense to limit the count to PAR photons. A lamp could be rated on how many actual tiny photons it is emitting each second. At present no lamp manufacturer does this rating.

Instead, plant biologists and researchers prefer to talk of the flux of photons falling each second on a surface. This is the basis of PPF PAR with PPF standing for Photosynthetic Photon Flux, a process which actually counts the number of photons falling per second on one square meter of surface. Since photons are very small, the count represents a great number of photons per second, but the number does provide a meaningful comparison.

Another measure appropriate for plant growth, called YPF PAR or Yield Photon Flux, takes into account not only the photons but also how effectively they are used by the plant. Since red light (or red photons) are used more effectively to induce a photosynthesis reaction, YPF PAR gives more weight to red photons based on the plant sensitivity curve.

Since photons are very small packets of energy, rather than referring to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 photons, scientists conventionally use the figure "1.7 micromoles of photons" designated by the symbol "µmol." A µmol stands for 6 x 1017 photons; 1 mole stands for 6 x 1023 photons. Irradiance (or illumination) is therefore measured in watts per square meter or in micromoles (of photons) per square meter per second, abbreviated as µmol.m-2.s-1

The unit "einstein" is sometimes used to refer to one mole per square meter per second. It means that each second a 1 square meter of surface has 6 x 1023 photons falling on it. Irradiance levels for plant growth can therefore be measured in micro-einsteins or in PAR watts/sq. meter.

These three measures of photosynthetically active radiation, PAR watts per square meter, PPF PAR and YPF PAR are all legitimate, although different, ways of measuring the light output of lamps for plant growth. They do not involve the human eye response curve which is irrelevant for plants. Since plant response does "spill out" beyond the 400 nanometer and 700 nanometer boundaries, some researchers refer to the 350 – 750 nanometer region as the PAR region. Using this expanded region will lead to mildly inflated PAR ratings compared to the more conservative approach in this discussion. However, the difference is small.

Still searching for how they determine the rating on an LED fixture. Stay tuned.

Hi Madness,

Yes, PAR is the current standard for defining the light intensity for planted aquarium fixtures and although the more cost effective PAR meters ($350 +/-) do not cover the full spectrum of plant response they are close enough for our purposes.

GSAS has a PAR meter that our members can 'check-out' for a week and use it to test their fixtures. I have used it on a number of occasions and have a recorded the PAR readings of the various fixtures on my tanks at three levels; near the top (6" deep), midway between the surface and the substrate, and at the substrate level.

LED's give off different spectrums just as fluorescent bulbs do. I believe the Beamworks fixtures are 10,000K which is more into the blue spectrum compared to daylight which is about 6700K. The LED lamp arrays I am testing claim to be 6400K but to my eye they seem more blueish possibly in the 8000K range or so. Also lenses can be used with the LED's to concentrate of diffuse the light as it leaves the source. Without a lens an LED bulb may provide light that is too concentrated. The light enters the tank and goes directly downward sort of little spotlights; leaving the front, back, and corners of the tank in shadow. If the lens is has too high a value then most of the light is diffused near the surface and not enough may reach the substrate level for good plant growth. A 120 degree lens seems to provide good light penetration to the substrate and still diffuses the light sufficiently to light the front, back, and corners.

A lot of people believe the savings of an LED fixture is due to the reduced electricity consumption but that is not really the case; the majority of the savings is realized from not having to replace the fluorescent bulbs annually. I calculated the pay-back period for an LED retrofit to the fixtures on my tank(s) at about 2.5 - 3 years.

I've done a lot of research on planted tanks , and all forms of lighting. What I've noticed right now there is no LED fixtures specifically designed for planted freshwater applications. CORALIFE right now sells their salt water LED system for both coral growth and planted freshwater. If I went with all LED using CORALIFE I would have invested near $2000 in lighting. Where's the savings in that? I wasn't ready to make a DYI LED system. Even if I did I would have been in the investment range of $800+ to light my 140 gallon tank. Using T5HO mixed with a couple red LED strips I lit my 7 foot tank for about $400

What I appreciate about fluorescents is the ability to change spectrum at will. I can go from 10,000K bulbs to 6,700K in 5 minutes and $20.

LED although growing in popularity lacks the refinement in manufacturing as fluorescents. I'm sure with time LED will take over the market but right now unless your looking for something simple LED isnt worth it.
.

I just set up a 29 gallon planted tank. I'm using 1 30inch duel bulb 50/50 CORALIFE(10,000K/blue actinic) fixture and 1 red LED light strip. This wih co2 injection , dry and liquid fertilizers I've never seen aquatic plants grow so quick. If I would have purchased he CORALIFE 30inch LED fixture for "planted tanks" AKA saltwater it would have cost $350ish. The 30inch T5HO was on sale for $110. The red LED strip was $50

What's nice is if I have made any kind of mistake with lighting I could change it easily. With LED lighting I would have to rely on the store taking the strip back to try again. Also, in the future if I want a different look in any of my tanks I can do it with a bulb change.

cyberwaste wrote:

i need a air pump, lighting, aquaclear filter, heater, and a stand. i am thinking about trying LED lights
and as far as plants go. NO CLUE. there is many to pick from but i think im gonna try something easy.

i plan to have this tank running by mid February

comments tips are welcome

Perhaps check out the 11 inch T5 ho fixture from CORALIFE. It comes stock 50/50 bulbs . you can change the actinic with a 6,400K bulb for about $10. i'm using the 30 inch T5HO version on my 29 gallon(with the 10,000k/blue actinic), with 1 red LED strip .These strips can be hidden under the rim. They are kind of neat. With this mix of lighting you will be able to grow anything you want with the proper fertilization. My plants are growing like crazy.

Links are for reference .
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hey thanks for all the replys guys! even tho the thread was kinda thread jacked lol.

i have added a aquatop air pump and 50watt heater to the list of things i dont need.

i still need lights which you all have added a lot of info to the thread about. and i think with my skill level im gonna go with a led setup. and if i wanted more later on i will probably get the "11 inch T5 ho fixture" theChad mentioned.

gonna grab a aquaclear filter next week i think.

and i cannot find a stand i like(they are all too short) so i am going to make a stand.
it will probably look something like this tank i made a few years back.
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but not as tall and with the bottom enclosed with a door.

then plants!!!

The cat sitting on your HOB without a lid is funny. Cats are crazy stealthy.

update. (kinda)

so i was laid off from my old job at the very end on Jan. i JUST found a new job. so this set me back a bit.

BUT

i found a LED light at petco on clearance for $17. it was a steal(REG. 69.99). but due to its size i cannot fit a HOB filter like i wanted so i am going to have to figure something out.

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cyberwaste wrote:update. (kinda)

so i was laid off from my old job at the very end on Jan. i JUST found a new job. so this set me back a bit.

BUT

i found a LED light at petco on clearance for $17. it was a steal(REG. 69.99). but due to its size i cannot fit a HOB filter like i wanted so i am going to have to figure something out.

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Hey Cyberwaste,

Can you use something to raise the light up enough to go over your HOB? Like using something like blocks of wood? I've seen ppl on this forum use LEGOS to extend the hight of their lights. I thought that was a cool idea!

If you keep those modular LED's I would like to know how you like them...

theChad wrote:
Hey Cyberwaste,

Can you use something to raise the light up enough to go over your HOB? Like using something like blocks of wood? I've seen ppl on this forum use LEGOS to extend the hight of their lights. I thought that was a cool idea!

Haha, cool people like me use Legos
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theChad wrote:
Hey Cyberwaste,

Can you use something to raise the light up enough to go over your HOB? Like using something like blocks of wood? I've seen ppl on this forum use LEGOS to extend the hight of their lights. I thought that was a cool idea!

If you keep those modular LED's I would like to know how you like them...

but wouldn't the light being higher off the tank = less light in the tank? or am i wrong? and i like the lego idea but i dont have any =[.

i will keep this threadd posted on how i like the lights. i only have 2 of the 3 possible light modules at the moment.