sump, build or buy?

So in my planning for my tank this coming summer, i am going to need a big sump. (BIG)
would it be more cost effective to build one from scratch? or buy an old tank and turn it into a sump?

OR is there a company out there that makes good ones for a reasonable price?

i built my own and it works like a dream and cost me about 100$.

yeah if it has to be big no reason to buy

workin ona sump atm lol

One thing to consider (in additional to build vs. buy) is whether you want a SUMP or a WET-DRY. They serve different purposes.

Yeah not so easy to make a WET DRY

Honestly, it's not that much harder.

Are you making it from acrylic or glass? Admittedly, glass would be harder.

What is it you're looking for from the unit? If it's biological filtration then you really should consider the wet-dry. If it's mechanical, a sump will work okay. If it's extra water volume, a sump will be pretty good, assuming you design it the right way (not like a saltwater sump).

If you are wanting to build a sump check out this site :[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] there is allot of good information there..

building is by far the most cost efficent way..... i was looking at sump/wetdry at the lfs and they were like 250-350 without a pump!!! WOW! it just blew my mind... cause it was just a tank with chambers, cant be too difficult to make. home depot will even cut the plexiglass to the specifications, you just got to put it together like a puzzle.... lol...

so I would build one... no doubt..... but then again, I always got mine used from someone on CL, or WFB

Zerc, with all the "free" tanks you find I think you should build one. An old empty 55g would be the perfect DIY project!

Zerc wrote:So in my planning for my tank this coming summer, i am going to need a big sump. (BIG)
would it be more cost effective to build one from scratch? or buy an old tank and turn it into a sump?

OR is there a company out there that makes good ones for a reasonable price?

What size tank are you needing a sump for? Why do you need a (BIG) sump?

madness wrote:What size tank are you needing a sump for? Why do you need a (BIG) sump?

I know Zerc is working on a deal for a 180. But he is still looking for bigger!

Reason I ask, is because I just got a sump or my 300 and it only needs to be 35 gal

where are the calculations for what size sump you need for a tank?

My "ideal" tank is a 96x36x24 tank (~350 gallons) so i figured i would probably have a 100 gallon sump or so?

larry.beck wrote:One thing to consider (in additional to build vs. buy) is whether you want a SUMP or a WET-DRY. They serve different purposes.

This seems to be the question... Is it a SUMP or a WET-DRY?

it could be either, if i can go smaller with one then that would be better but it will either be under the tank or piped out to the garage so space "shouldn't" be an issue.

Well you cant go wrong with bigger.

madness wrote:Well you cant go wrong with bigger.

That's what she said.

Jantilla wrote:

madness wrote:Well you cant go wrong with bigger.

That's what she said.

Hey, no stealing my line!

How did I not know that someone was going to say that.

I have a friend that runs sumps on all of his tanks, and he is going to send me the calculations. He said the size of sump is all determined by the amount of flow rate you want/have on your overflows.

yay

DMD123 wrote:

Jantilla wrote:

madness wrote:Well you cant go wrong with bigger.

That's what she said.

Hey, no stealing my line!

You got to be quicker lol

Jantilla wrote:You got to be quicker lol

Thats what she didnt say!

DMD123 wrote:

Jantilla wrote:You got to be quicker lol

Thats what she didnt say!

So here is the jist of it.

Most of the calculations out there are for salt water tanks, and they are going to size the sumps much larger for the fact that you want slow moving water and you have so much more going into the the sump. (skimmers, coral, etc)

So lets give an example: Right now I have 2 Fx5's on my 300. That would be a hand full of media, and aprx 10 gals of water. So right now I have a 10 gal sump under my 300. Plus when you put in a sump you are going to have almost 5 gallons of bio media, compared to a hand full in the Fx5's. The idea for a sump/wet dry is lots of media. So if I have a 30 gal sump/wet dry under my 300 with 5 gal of media, a couple sponge filters for debris, and a pump. How much room do you need for that? Say about 30 gallons? The 2 Fx5's are probably pushing combined, 1200 gph, and the pump in your sump/wet dry will probably push 1500 gph. Well if one can be done in 2 5gal canister filters, why cant a 30 gal be perfect. Also something else to think about. An AquaClear 110 is rated for 100 gallon tank, so lets say you use 4 to 5 of them on a 300. Thats even less than 10 gal of capacity.

Not to mention, would it be cheaper to heat a 30 gal sump or a 100 gal sump?

So, basically its all about the media, not the volume of water that is sitting under your main tank.

Hope this helps.

Ok! I guess i wont need as much media as i thought

Right now i have two rena canisters, an xp3 and xp4. i have 4 of the 7 baskets full of ceramic tubes and the rest is sponges. I was considering using my 125 as a sump, siliconing in compartments and filling it with media.

I suppose when you think about the volume of media i am currently using then a 5 gallon bucket full of media should be plenty!

You guys are gonna love the sump I'm having built to go under the 300g tank... it's ~100g total capacity, flowing 2100gph, and will include a freshwater refugium with plants and livestock, a carbon reactor for cleaning up water, and a media reactor for nutrient removal.

Zerc wrote:Ok! I guess i wont need as much media as i thought

Right now i have two rena canisters, an xp3 and xp4. i have 4 of the 7 baskets full of ceramic tubes and the rest is sponges. I was considering using my 125 as a sump, siliconing in compartments and filling it with media.

I suppose when you think about the volume of media i am currently using then a 5 gallon bucket full of media should be plenty!

Just for reference, I was figuring out a pond setup for this Summer. I was going to have 2 x 300gal AG ponds flowing down into 4 x 120 gal ponds, totaling over 1000 gal. and was only going to build a wet/dry that measures 6' x 18" x 24",(150 gal) and the only reason I was going that large is because I was going to grow plants in it also.

larry.beck wrote:You guys are gonna love the sump I'm having built to go under the 300g tank... it's ~100g total capacity, flowing 2100gph, and will include a freshwater refugium with plants and livestock, a carbon reactor for cleaning up water, and a media reactor for nutrient removal.

Which is why you are probably going so large, correct?

Ive thought about a refugium, but I know almost nothing about how they work. But it sounds interesting so i guess i have some reading to do!

madness wrote:

larry.beck wrote:You guys are gonna love the sump I'm having built to go under the 300g tank... it's ~100g total capacity, flowing 2100gph, and will include a freshwater refugium with plants and livestock, a carbon reactor for cleaning up water, and a media reactor for nutrient removal.

Which is why you are probably going so large, correct?

Correct. But I will say, I'm not a believer in small sumps. I do believe in small wet-dry systems though. I've seen people with 10g sumps before and I think the risk of flooding far outweighs and benefits of the sump in the case. Any sump has to have enough overhead to handle when the pump goes out. Plus you need enough capacity in your return area to account for evaporation. In my current 125g I lose about 10g per week to evaporation and expect that to increase with the larger surface area of the new tank. Finally, you need enough room for a proper bubble trap to eliminate the creation of microbubbles in the display tank.

But that''s just my opinion.

Just drill return tube with the proper height air stop. Hence even small sump and overflowing of water is non factor if that is done properly.

But if your doing water changes on a consistent basis, you wouldnt lose 10 gal of water/ week, would you? And I am describing a wet/dry, thats really all you need on a fresh water tank.

seattle23 wrote:Just drill return tube with the proper height air stop. Hence even small sump and overflowing of water is non factor if that is done properly.

The risk to an air gap approach like this is that the gap gets plugged. A bit of plant matter, fish matter, even food or detritus build-up, and you've got a flood-in-waiting on your hands. It's similar to the risk of only having a single return pipe; if that pipe gets blocked in any significant way, the tank will flood because the return pump will continue to return the same volume of water regardless. In this case you end up with a flood *and* a burned out pump because you ran the sump dry.

For anyone seriously considering a sump I highly recommend spending a year or two on the saltwater forums. Talk with people who have had a sump for at least 10 years. Learn from their experiences. Then design your own.

madness wrote:But if your doing water changes on a consistent basis, you wouldnt lose 10 gal of water/ week, would you? And I am describing a wet/dry, thats really all you need on a fresh water tank.

Shawn - I completely agree with you when discussing a wet/dry. No need to go too big. You need a reasonably sized overflow tower, 10-20 gallons of bio-balls above the water line, and a reasonably sized return area. Make sure you've got enough overhead to handle a power outage and you're ready to go. For most tanks I see this requiring about 40g. In fact, I think a 40 breeder would be a really good tank to use for a custom-built wet-dry.

larry.beck wrote:

seattle23 wrote:Just drill return tube with the proper height air stop. Hence even small sump and overflowing of water is non factor if that is done properly.

The risk to an air gap approach like this is that the gap gets plugged. A bit of plant matter, fish matter, even food or detritus build-up, and you've got a flood-in-waiting on your hands. It's similar to the risk of only having a single return pipe; if that pipe gets blocked in any significant way, the tank will flood because the return pump will continue to return the same volume of water regardless. In this case you end up with a flood *and* a burned out pump because you ran the sump dry.

For anyone seriously considering a sump I highly recommend spending a year or two on the saltwater forums. Talk with people who have had a sump for at least 10 years. Learn from their experiences. Then design your own.

Ok sure if you are referring to people who don't take the time to do water changes etc. I have never had a problem in the 30 years of doing this . Also when setting up you make sure you get your measurements for return heights and water level and it becomes a non issue because honestly that air hole should not be sitting in the water to get plugged or whatever cause if it gets plugged you are doing it wrong. And every water change or filter clean you should check the airhole anyways.

Tons of people have different ways of doing this and making it work for them. So whatever method you choose just make sure you test everything out and read up if you know nothing about wet/dry/sump systems. Some of the info will be right for you and some of it will not. Totally depends on the environment you maintain for your aquariums.