Deaths due to water source?

So in the last 3 day I've lost 5 of my Lwanda Females and all three of the males in my malawi tank. No signs of disease, and using the API test kit all of my water parameters are fine.

PH 8, Everything else is 0.

So I wake up this morning, and now the shrimp tank has a few fatalites, notably Bacon Shrimp the Bamboo Shrimp. Water parameters are all acceptable as well. The only thing I can think of is something coming from the faucet because the shrimp tank didn't start showing any deaths until this morning, and last night was the first time I changed the water in awhile.

Any suggestions?

Test your tap water, TDS, gh & kh, PH. Call your water company and ask them if they've done anything different lately.
No other possible household contaminants? Sounds bad, good luck!

On your water changes do you use cold water straight from the tap or do you use warm water from the hot water tank?

Oh geez, this is messed up! That's an old building the pipes maybe super old and releasing an abundance of minerals.... Just trouble shooting here... If there is a way to check minerals like copper, zinc, and whatever those old pipes are made of... Also, if the hot water tank is old it could very well releasing an abundance of minerals and or icky toxins.  I would switch to small cold water changes of like 10% if you are not already doing so! Maybe invest in a filter to run the water through...

These are just things to think about, perhaps try...

Well, the house that I live in was built in the 1800s and renovated in the 80's, but I havent had a problem with any sort of contamination in the past.

Hot water tank is relatvily new, with in the past 3 years or so.

Water changes are straight from the tap, adjusted for to match tank temp.

Not old tank, this tank has only been up for a few months.

GH/KH are acceptable, I just tested them last night.

Ugh, this is so lame. The only thing I can think of is the construction site a few blocks away in Everett, where they are building the Farmers Market. I'll try giving the water company a call tomorrow. In the meantime, I popped a Magnum HOT (Thanks Ron!) filled with ZeoCarb.

Happy thanksgiving! ಠ_ಠ

I forgot to add, I feel absolutely terrible about this. Mainly because the Lwandas are endangered species and I was in the process of getting them CARES registered.

For a hot water tank, 3 years IS old enough to accumulate sludge on the bottom. This is he reason as we are growing up our parents tell us NOT to drink warm water from the tap. I haven't used warm water for water changes in a long while. Water changes in the 10% range won't change temp to dramatically. Pipes from the 80's, you do realize these are copper, they could be plastic but still have copper fittings . Either way that's over 30 years old now.

Ok, both of those things make sense. But two things:

Why hasn't this been a problem before?

And if this is the case, what can I do to avoid it in the future.

Just watched another Lwanda bite the dust. No signs of distress at all. She just became lethargic over a 20-min period and then went belly up. I'm going to do a PWC, with cold water, and run another set of tests.

You could bring some tap and both tank waters to my shop tomorrow and I can figure it out. I deal with this almost weekly. "My tanks were fine, and now stuff died" It has to be the water nothing has changed.

It's very rare it's related to your water source. Typically if something is killing fish, it'll kill all the fish, and any survivors are a different species. If it was say copper in your water from old pipes, you'd see every invert die, not just 1 bacon shrimp etc.

The human mind loves to jump to conclusions. Another perfectly logical answer, which there are probably 100 different things that could be going on is. Lwandas have hit sexual maturity and have now killed each other off due to pecking order. Shrimp dies from random tank parameters or molting problem etc. As humans we lump those two things together because they happened in a close time frame. But in reality with a lot of research you find out it was two different things going on.

BTW, make sure your pH is staying the same during your water changes as .2 of a change can kill fish outright. I've bred lots of Lwandas in the past at Conway Tropical Fish etc. All in tapwater at 7.0-7.2. The 8.0 ph makes it hard to keep a pH stable when your tap water is far off from that.

Aquarium Co-Op wrote:You could bring some tap and both tank waters to my shop tomorrow and I can figure it out. I deal with this almost weekly. "My tanks were fine, and now stuff died" It has to be the water nothing has changed.

I might swing by on Saturday if I get the chance and take you up on that offer.

Aquarium Co-Op wrote:

It's very rare it's related to your water source. Typically if something is killing fish, it'll kill all the fish, and any survivors are a different species. If it was say copper in your water from old pipes, you'd see every invert die, not just 1 bacon shrimp etc.

The human mind loves to jump to conclusions. Another perfectly logical answer, which there are probably 100 different things that could be going on is. Lwandas have hit sexual maturity and have now killed each other off due to pecking order. Shrimp dies from random tank parameters or molting problem etc. As humans we lump those two things together because they happened in a close time frame. But in reality with a lot of research you find out it was two different things going on.

See, I had one male die a few weeks ago due to bullying. I pulled him from the tank but he passed in the hospital tank. Though I did notice a sharp increase in females holding afterwards. These deaths have been...different. I've seen fighting and dominant fish asserting themselves over subs, and have not seen any behavior like that at all. In fact, now that I think about I've seen a noticeable decrease in aggression the past few days. Not activity, just aggression.

Thinking this through in my head, in regards to the Spec V, I know that Bacon just molted successfully a few days ago. I know shrimp can die from a failed molt, but can molting have a delayed effect on them?

Have they done any water main flushing in your area by chance? I know down here in Fed Way just about every other week I see where they're flushing mains, that could be a source.

Also take a moment and smell your water, I know here in Fed Way the water reeks of Chlorine, I do double doses of prime in my water as a just in case deal.

Can you test for Flouride? I have heard that when the city water company flushes the system a larger amount of flouride is added to the water system. Though I agree with Corey for the most part.. I would say if your half you tank has died in a 48hr period something is amiss. Keep us posted eh?

Gryphon wrote:Have they done any water main flushing in your area by chance? I know down here in Fed Way just about every other week I see where they're flushing mains, that could be a source.

Also take a moment and smell your water, I know here in Fed Way the water reeks of Chlorine, I do double doses of prime in my water as a just in case deal.

A super strong chlorine smell most likely indicates chloramine, which is definitely nastier in an aquarium. Not only does it stay in the water longer, but it contains ammonia as well. Prime handles this without issue, thankfully.

OK, problem figured out!

I called up the water company. Apparently the construction site down the street is tapping the water main, or something like that, and due to that they were flushing it or something. The rep from the water company assured me that any and all chemicals and contamination would be within limits for safe human consumpetion. BUT DON'T YOU PEOPLE KNOW I KEEP DELICATE FISH?!

What a nightmare.

How much of the water did you change? Do you use prime?

pbmax wrote:How much of the water did you change?  Do you use prime?

First 2 water changes were 50% with tank temperature water, and yes, Prime was the weapon of choice. After that I performed probably 2-3 10% water changes with cold water. So far I havent had any more deaths in the past 24 hours.

bronzefighter wrote:OK, problem figured out!

I called up the water company. Apparently the construction site down the street is tapping the water main, or something like that, and due to that they were flushing it or something. The rep from the water company assured me that any and all chemicals and contamination would be within limits for safe human consumpetion. BUT DON'T YOU PEOPLE KNOW I KEEP DELICATE FISH?!

What a nightmare.

Hmmm, makes me wonder....
How much water do u change & how often? Just wondering because it seems in general ppl approach this pretty much the same but perhaps our settle differences in each area in which we live is important due to the differences in everyone's water supplies and inhabitants. Like for me & my fish I have adapted to no more than %10 for a water change and only use cold water. This small amount of water change means the parameters are changed very little. The fact that most my filters are rated nearly double the tank size & precise buffering there is security in knowing they maintain  constant water parameters .

I would think with settle changes in city water parameters and the fact I change just little amounts of water no matter what the city does, with little water changes the parameters will not be effected much.

In theory anyway, ha!

Sorry about your loss my friend. Sometimes it seems no matter what we do there is some Elements that are out of our control as we attempt to control balance in an enclosed ecosystem...

It might be a good time to drain / flush your hot water tank. Hopefully the worst is behind you. Good luck!

I use some hot when I do my changes as well (usually about 50%); I shoot for around 65F and that seems to work for me.

Smaller water changes with cold only are the best bet for sure, but larger changes are often desirable, especially for small and/or planted tanks with regular fertilizer regimens.

bronzefighter wrote:

pbmax wrote:How much of the water did you change?  Do you use prime?

First 2 water changes were 50% with tank temperature water, and yes, Prime was the weapon of choice. After that I performed probably 2-3 10% water changes with cold water. So far I havent had any more deaths in the past 24 hours.

Oh geez,
We posted at the same time. So please disregard my question about how much water changed. But yeah, I have noticed big water changes- changes water parameters way to much for my systems. no matter how much we try to match the new water to the old water it can not be matched 100%. Especially when the parameters in the tank are manipulated already (like high/low P.H. High/low mineral contents, high/low KH, GH, Ect...).

I am sure many ppl have different experiences, everyone has a "method" that works for them. In my method, with little water changes I add NOTHING to the new water. Its not enough water to change parameters to a lethal dose to the filter system, or fish & the filters are able to maintain parameters.

pbmax wrote:Smaller water changes with cold only are the best bet for sure, but larger changes are often desirable, especially for small and/or planted tanks with regular fertilizer regimens.

This doesn't work for me even with planted tanks (large and small). I have noticed fish adapt to the parameters & water conditions fo CO2 injection, liquid and solid ferts. When I would do a 20-50% water change it shocks the inhabitants. In the biggest of tanks, and smallest of tanks I stick to about a 10% change at a time attempting to change water conditions very little...

Like I said before.... This is what works for me & the overall health of the fish I keep.

In the end it's about how much time you want to spend on tank maintenance and what works best for you.  

To change up 50% of the water in my tanks every 2 weeks 10% at a time would probably add 3-4 more hours of maintenance every 2 week period (lots of overhead associated with water changes; the amount doesn't really matter).  I used to change only 20% at a time, but I noticed no difference between that and 50% changes as far as how my aquaria reacted.

Of course all of this was when I was on un-chlorinated well water... it may all come crashing down on me now that I'm on city water, but so far so good.  

Yeah, I think that I'll stick with smaller water changes from now often. I have enough filtration that I can do smaller changes once a week instead of larger ones. It's just such a hassle to setup everything for a water change anymore more than once or twice a week.

As much as I enjoy cichlids, I'm really missing the whole "not care about nitrate buildup" that a planted tank affords you. Oh well!

Thank's everyone for their suggestions and help.

pbmax wrote:In the end it's about how much time you want to spend on tank maintenance and what works best for you.  

To change up 50% of the water in my tanks every 2 weeks 10% at a time would probably add 3-4 more hours of maintenance every 2 week period (lots of overhead associated with water changes; the amount doesn't really matter).  I used to change only 20% at a time, but I noticed no difference between that and 50% changes as far as how my aquaria reacted.  

Of course all of this was when I was on un-chlorinated well water... it may all come crashing down on me now that I'm on city water, but so far so good.  

I do 10-30% water changes on all my tanks every weekend and once every 5 weeks I make sure I do 40-60% on all of them. I personally have tried to just do the 10% thing but find with my slob cichlids it is just not sufficient. This seems to work best for me, though if your tanks are vetted, then I suspect its just whatever works for ya. Cheers!

Chiisai wrote:

pbmax wrote:In the end it's about how much time you want to spend on tank maintenance and what works best for you.  

To change up 50% of the water in my tanks every 2 weeks 10% at a time would probably add 3-4 more hours of maintenance every 2 week period (lots of overhead associated with water changes; the amount doesn't really matter).  I used to change only 20% at a time, but I noticed no difference between that and 50% changes as far as how my aquaria reacted.  

Of course all of this was when I was on un-chlorinated well water... it may all come crashing down on me now that I'm on city water, but so far so good.  

I do 10-30% water changes on all my tanks every weekend and once every 5 weeks I make sure I do 40-60% on all of them. I personally have tried to just do the 10% thing but find with my slob cichlids it is just not sufficient.  This seems to work best for me, though if your tanks are vetted, then I suspect its just whatever works for ya. Cheers!

Oh yeah, now this is a different type of monster. I too raised large predatory, territorial cichlids. This takes a different type of care, and having meat eating bottom dwelling catfish is a plus in keeping these tanks clean from rotting protein based foods.

Bronzefighter,
We should be asking this key question,
What did you do different in "this" tank set-up compared to other tanks you've been running for sometime?
Did it cycle for 45 days minimum before adding any livestock? Did you add any rocks/logs that weren't tested/presoaked first?
Are you cleaning substrait and filters at the same time?
As you stated earlier this is a newer setup that sounds like it's still having fits and can revert back to the start.
Is your fish to water ratio equal? How often do you feed and how much?  Too much water removed in a new setup WILL upset the whole balance of what you were originally trying to acheive in the first place.
Like others said I have given up on testing for Nitrates too often and if I do I panic and get out the buckets!!!
All is good in my seven tanks for 4 years now and have had VERY little loses and Yes I keep several C.A.R.E.S. fishes as well. Give us an update as this is helping us all here!

Livebearer wrote:
Did it cycle for 45 days minimum before adding any livestock?

I think this is most likely huge overkill. During a cycle one should be taking periodic measurements of ammonia and nitrite, not rely on any particular time period. The vast majority of my tanks had either no cycle or cycled under a week thanks to pre-seeding with plants and filter media from established tanks.

I honestly don't think tank maintenance or cycling were to blame. I have 3 tanks running at the moment. On 2 of them, literally the day I performed a water change I started having deaths. The third tank never had a water change and has been just fine.

The tank was fully cycled in less then a week, due to using a preseeded filter, and to be honest I've never actually 'cycled' a tank. I'm much too impatient for that  I've always used preseeded filters and just kept an eye on water quality. I alternate between rinsing out one filter, and rinsing out one of the trays in the canister.

The first month or so I tested water quality using my API kit, and slowly dwindled down to checking every other week, and now I only check...whenever. I keep a log of results and have never had any unusual spikes or deviations.

I believe that if the tank had started to cycle again then I would have seen a spike in ammonia readings, as well as NO2. Instead, all reading were consistent with previous records, and this was checked with 2 separate lots of reagents.

I only started to see rising NH3 levels a few days later, as fish continued to die off and sit while I was working.

Anyways, while I greatly appreciate your input and ideas, I wholeheartedly think that this occurrence was a freak accident of sorts. While I've only been fishkeeping for about a year or so now, I've never experienced any deaths like this or had issues with water quality.

At this time, all (surviving) fish are healthy and active, and water quality is back up to optimal parameters.

In fact, one of the Lwandas managed to hold on to a batch of eggs throughout the whole Aqua-pocolypse, and just yesterday I think I saw some lil wrigglers in her mouth!

Glad to hear that all is back to normal. I myself have learned through trial and error and have been keeping fish off and on for 15+ years now. What I know now that I wish I knew back then???<<<