Happy with my Fire Reds but....

So I haven't posted for a while due to work and trying to do everything before weather gets too nasty again. Anyways some of you guys may have seen a post at craigslist selling a Taiwanese Fire Red Cherry Shrimp from Issaquah. Well I contacted the guy a couple months ago and finally had a chance to go to his place and get some of his Fire reds 2 weeks ago. I only bought 10 and a few extras and a pinch of nice quality java moss.. Obviously I have them for almost 2 weeks now. I remember he gave me 1 female carrying eggs. But i checked today No one has eggs an no shrimplets!!! what's goin on? my first suspect is the sponge prefilter might be too big for the shrimplets so they get sucked by the filter. Here are some pics.

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Jettej you will soon. The yellow stuff in the back that shrimp in the last picture. Thats eggs ready to be fertilized by a male.

Thanks Wes. one thing I noticed was Males gets crazy swimming around. and found out they are looking for the female that just released some enzymes and shes ready! Ugh Shrimps are weird lol!

I have had my RCS for over a month, and still don't see any babies, although there are a couple of berried females... I think we just have to be patient, my friend.

If there was one that was berried, but then you never saw babies, the mother might have gotten stressed during the move when you got them and aborted the clutch. I have heard it can happenwith freshwater shrimp.

LuminousAphid wrote:I have had my RCS for over a month, and still don't see any babies, although there are a couple of berried females... I think we just have to be patient, my friend.

If there was one that was berried, but then you never saw babies, the mother might have gotten stressed during the move when you got them and aborted the clutch. I have heard it can happenwith freshwater shrimp.

The first part i would agree since i had em long and got nothing then... I should be patient like you.

Second part i also agree. That might have happened. Also the eggs probably died off since the water chemistry has changed even thou i carefully accclimated the whole crew. Or like u said the mother was just like F it im stressed. Threw the eggs away got sucked by the filters orrr just got eaten by snails or the shrimps itself. I am also planning to get yellows pretty soon. And Crystals once i gain my confidence handling shrimps

jettej wrote: I am also planning to get yellows pretty soon. And Crystals once i gain my confidence handling shrimps

Here's a compatible shrimp list[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It's common for a female shrimp to drop her eggs when transferred to another tank. As long as you have an established tank with decent bio film and stable water parameters they should start breeding soon. I've never seen (or heard of) snails or other shrimp snatching eggs from a berried female that was still alive.

Your tank looks like a great place for shrimp!  

Thanks Wes. So is it homing compatibility or breeding. Either or check means what and no means what? Haha

pbmax okay so here's the deal. I have those generic 10 gallon black hob filters using those rectangular refilable filter. I lost the stock sponge that used as a biofilm. So what i did was . I grabbed one of thos colored plastic scrubbers and stuck it where the stock biofilter used to be place. Does that sound decent or no? See.. idk how to determine a decent biofilm. Some people used straws and they said thats a good fix.

Unless the shrimp are living in your filter, then what's growing in your filter likely doesn't matter much. I'm talking about the stuff the shrimp actively eat that lives on all of the surfaces in the tank.

The key for shrimp compatibility is not to mix neocaridina with neocaridina or caridina with caridina. For example, if you mix yellows and RCS (both neocaridina) you'll get undesirable coloration out of the offspring - this is bad.

Okay. Well yeah i guess my tank is fine then. I'm trying to keep the water parameters and the quality stable. I think i got decent  amount of plant for the size of the tank.

And okay. I never thought of mixing any shrimp. At least atm. But i'll keep that in mind. I am a pure/stock strain kind of person when it comes to fish/shrimp hobby. I have to gain enough confidence and knowledge to step up and experiment. I guess when i get CRS ill combine it with CBS if i get some.

Thanks much pbmax. Always full of info.

So will Crystal Red and Crystal Black's not interbreed? It sounds like the blacks would just be another color variation of the CRS (like Blue Velvet, green) but are they a separate species?

I think the key is you could have 1 tank with 2 types, as long as 1 is neocaridina and 1 is caridina. So that they don't interbreed and revert to their wild color form, which is what can happen I have heard.

That table shouldn't say it's okay to keep Crystal Reds and Crystal Blacks together - they're the same species (caridina cf. cantonensis). In theory you'll still get the same banding, but the red and black colors will wash out over time.

For the record, blue velvets are not a color variation of CRS (Crystal Red Shrimp - caridina cf. cantonensis). They originated from selective breeding of RCS (Red Cherry shrimp - neocaridina heteropoda). You may not have been implying that, but the wording wasn't 100% clear so I thought I'd mention that.

Mixing neocaridina and caridina works great as long as you can find a happy medium as far as water parameters go.

LuminousAphid wrote:So will Crystal Red and Crystal Black's not interbreed? It sounds like the blacks would just be another color variation of the CRS (like Blue Velvet, green) but are they a separate species?

I think the key is you could have 1 tank with 2 types, as long as 1 is neocaridina and 1 is caridina. So that they don't interbreed and revert to their wild color form, which is what can happen I have heard.

Crs and cbs will definitely interbreed. But its just the coloration. I know someone doing that and the spawns are good. Its mixed yes but u still come across with cbs mate with cbs and crs mate with crs. The downside is the longer the community grows larger. The less chance same coloration will meet. And i think thats what pbmax meabt about colors will wash out.

pbmax wrote:That table shouldn't say it's okay to keep Crystal Reds and Crystal Blacks together - they're the same species (caridina cf. cantonensis).  In theory yo. u'll still get the same banding, but the red and black colors will wash out over time.

For the record, blue velvets are not a color variation of CRS (Crystal Red Shrimp - caridina cf. cantonensis).  They originated from selective breeding of RCS (Red Cherry shrimp - neocaridina heteropoda).  You may not have been implying that, but the wording wasn't 100% clear so I thought I'd mention that.

Mixing neocaridina and caridina works great as long as you can find a happy medium as far as water parameters go.

I think we are reading the table wrong.i think Check means they WILL/CAN breed whilst x meant theyre not compatible breeding. So if u r watching to keep same strain but 2 different kind of shrimp. You wanna find an X compatibility so you can home them without interbreeding. And if u want to interbreed something. Like in pokemon. U want to find 2 shrimp that has check on it.

And You said if crs and cbs mix. The red and black colors will wash out. Meaning dull colors or just turn into white? Cuz if they turn into white would it make the crystal's grade go up? Sorry if im so fail at this.

Unless you dont care like me. Just put all freaking shrimps together.  Lol
@jettej. Red X means will interbreed and green check means ok to live with, without interbreeding.

jettej wrote:
I think we are reading the table wrong.i think Check means they WILL/CAN breed whilst x meant theyre not compatible breeding. So if u r watching to keep same strain but 2 different kind of shrimp. You wanna find an X compatibility so you can home them without interbreeding. And if u want to interbreed something. Like in pokemon. U want to find 2 shrimp that has check on it.

And You said if crs and cbs mix. The red and black colors will wash out. Meaning dull colors or just turn into white? Cuz if they turn into white would it make the crystal's grade go up? Sorry if im so fail at this.

As SirWesDragon said, X means you shouldn't keep them together because they'll breed. Take Blue Velvets and red cherries, for example. And ghost shrimp - they're green for everything, but they interbreed with no other known shrimp.

From my brief reading on the topic, I believe you'll retain the white bands if you mix CRS and CBS, but the red and black bands will fade to brown. It's just a bad idea.

 

pbmax wrote:

jettej wrote:
I think we are reading the table wrong.i think Check means they WILL/CAN breed whilst x meant theyre not compatible breeding. So if u r watching to keep same strain but 2 different kind of shrimp. You wanna find an X compatibility so you can home them without interbreeding. And if u want to interbreed something. Like in pokemon. U want to find 2 shrimp that has check on it.

And You said if crs and cbs mix. The red and black colors will wash out. Meaning dull colors or just turn into white? Cuz if they turn into white would it make the crystal's grade go up? Sorry if im so fail at this.

As SirWesDragon said, X means you shouldn't keep them together because they'll breed.  Take Blue Velvets and red cherries, for example.  And ghost shrimp - they're green for everything, but they interbreed with no other known shrimp.

From my brief reading on the topic, I believe you'll retain the white bands if you mix CRS and CBS, but the red and black bands will fade to brown.  It's just a bad idea.

Thanks pbmax for Maximum info.!! Helps a lot!

Anyways, Just did my after work Morning Routine check with my tanks and look what i found:

A abandoned Alien/Robot Suit!

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And after that I also found these:

One of the larger females got some load!

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So happy! thou its normal and RCS are easy to breed. I'm just happy to see them breeding in my tank.

Make sure water changes are important part of your weekly routine. Shrumps love water changes and promtes breeding. Leave the exoskeleton for shrumps to eat for calcium. For calcium use cuttlefish bone or shrimp calcium supplements. I use the bone its cheaper but you have to tie it down with a rock and remove weekly it rot.

SiRWesDragon wrote:Make sure water changes are important part of your weekly routine.  Shrumps love water changes and promtes breeding. Leave the exoskeleton for shrumps to eat for calcium.  For calcium use cuttlefish bone or shrimp calcium supplements. I use the bone its cheaper but you have to tie it down with a rock and remove weekly it rot.

So whats the best way to acquire cuttlefish bone? Yeah i will be doing one now. Thanks!

Lfs or bird pet stores would have them by weight. Dont buy the package ones, expensive.

Text about what you and tanya talked about?

SiRWesDragon wrote:Make sure water changes are important part of your weekly routine.  Shrumps love water changes and promtes breeding. Leave the exoskeleton for shrumps to eat for calcium.  For calcium use cuttlefish bone or shrimp calcium supplements. I use the bone its cheaper but you have to tie it down with a rock and remove weekly it rot.

You should tell that to the shrimp in my 20g walstad and 3g aquasoil tank. The 20g goes 4 - 5 months between water changes and the 3g goes at least a month, sometimes two.

Most important are stable water conditions and lots of surface area in the tank, in my experience. Don't mix up your water change frequency unless there's a problem. I do 50% changes in most of my tanks every 2 weeks.

SiRWesDragon wrote:Lfs or bird pet stores would have them by weight. Dont buy the package ones, expensive.

Text about what you and tanya talked about?

Okay gotcha!. Thanks!

I just texted you just now.

Since ya'll are talking south end, A Place for Pets has cuttlefish bone in their bird section for $1 ea. That is a wicked good price and it is in bulk. Very nice quality.

If you run a canister filter, put it in there and skip trying to tie it to something. If you just run sponge filters I suggest either breaking it up and submerging in the substrate or not using cuttlefish bone at all and use crushed coral for the minerals and leaves and such for the biocomplexity to help molting. There's no getting around the fact that cuttlefish remains a good supplement for aquarium shrimp minerals and molting for sure though. The fact that it floats like crazy just makes it inconvenient if you don't have a canister filter.

Lately I've been adding seachem equilibrium to most of my tanks at every water change. It takes a bit of time (measuring water replaced and calculating dosage in grams based on target GH), but I know I have a decent and stable amount of calcium in my water now.

A elevated GH will help shrimp, snails, plants, and certain fish as well.

VernalPond wrote:Since ya'll are talking south end, A Place for Pets has cuttlefish bone in their bird section for $1 ea.  That is a wicked good price and it is in bulk.  Very nice quality.
If you run a canister filter, put it in there and skip trying to tie it to something.  If you just run sponge filters I suggest either breaking it up and submerging in the substrate or not using cuttlefish bone at all and use crushed coral for the minerals and leaves and such for the biocomplexity to help molting.  There's no getting around the fact that cuttlefish remains a good supplement for aquarium shrimp minerals and molting for sure though.  The fact that it floats like crazy just makes it inconvenient if you don't have a canister filter.

Hi. Shago. Nah. Having to tie for a week is not bad at all it provides kappa leaf a paper weight. Once awhile I break down some of the cuttle bone for shrimps to snack on. Some of those shrimp supplements are pricey. While those natural alternatives like your products are less pricey, better, and natural.

VernalPond wrote:Since ya'll are talking south end, A Place for Pets has cuttlefish bone in their bird section for $1 ea.  That is a wicked good price and it is in bulk.  Very nice quality.

If you run a canister filter, put it in there and skip trying to tie it to something.  If you just run sponge filters I suggest either breaking it up and submerging in the substrate or not using cuttlefish bone at all and use crushed coral for the minerals and leaves and such for the biocomplexity to help molting.  There's no getting around the fact that cuttlefish remains a good supplement for aquarium shrimp minerals and molting for sure though.  The fact that it floats like crazy just makes it inconvenient if you don't have a canister filter.

All of my tanks are running HOB and some runs Sponge as well. I think just shoving it in between the bio filter and carbon filter will work. Thanks for the suggestion. How's APFP btw?

Yes, putting it inside the HOB works great. I did that for years.

APfP has historically been a great place for fish. Terrible for shrimp because they keep all the neo color morphs in one tank. They recently got rid of the fish guy owner, Kevin, though so it remains to be seen how the fish section will go.

pbmax wrote:Lately I've been adding seachem equilibrium to most of my tanks at every water change.  It takes a bit of time (measuring water replaced and calculating dosage in grams based on target GH), but I know I have a decent and stable amount of calcium in my water now.

A elevated GH will help shrimp, snails, plants, and certain fish as well.

I wish i'm a good chemist. haha I am not very comfortable with chemicals. especially with my small tanks. I don't want to make same mistake twice. I usually go remedies and generic alternative. But all input is something to look at. so Thanks!!

VernalPond wrote:Yes, putting it inside the HOB works great.  I did that for years.

APfP has historically been a great place for fish.  Terrible for shrimp because they keep all the neo color morphs in one tank.  They recently got rid of the fish guy owner, Kevin, though so it remains to be seen how the fish section will go.

Yeah i Know, That's the reason I asked how it was is because last time i was there, it was Kevin's last week but i didn't have any clue just found it out here .I rarely go there but when i do i usually get stuff/fish and i go home happy. especially on Bushynose plecos. I always call and check for new shipments. Rumors was the guy that stayed (Sean) is knowledgable but specifically on cichlid. I am not a cichlid guy even thou I wanna try keeping cichlids. anyways I should probably check the store on my own.

Oh No! So someone dropped eggs again!. But now its stuck on Hair alage. I'm keeping it aerated thou hopefully it works.

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AND another thing is my shrimp tank is infested with Black and green hair algae.

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To end this bad news let's go for a Literally TINY Good News. I see some Mini shrimps. I think the dropped eggs way back that started this post didn't really end up in shrimp heaven. They still Hatched Sorry for bad Pics!!!

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Congrats on the babies!

I have green hair / thread algae in 3 of my shrimp tanks and the shrimp don't seem to mind. Thankfully it's not terribly difficult to manually remove if you keep on top of it. It's quite pretty on sponge filters too.

Congrats. When I first got fire red cherry shrimp, there was a pregnant female but it did seem like forever before there were little shrimplets. Pretty soon your tank will be overrun by them.

pbmax wrote:Lately I've been adding seachem equilibrium to most of my tanks at every water change.  It takes a bit of time (measuring water replaced and calculating dosage in grams based on target GH), but I know I have a decent and stable amount of calcium in my water now.

A elevated GH will help shrimp, snails, plants, and certain fish as well.

What GH level are you trying to attain?

cichlid-gal wrote:
What GH level are you trying to attain?  

11 dGH in 3 tanks where I have platies (4 dGH out of the tap) and 12 dGH in my snail tank (where I have some platy fry).  I'm boosting most of my other tanks to 7 dGH for the sake of the plants.  The shrimp are fine with my tap water, as far as I can tell.  In fact, a number of the blue-velvet culls I have in my snail tank aren't doing so well since I boosted the GH in that tank (tails turning opaque white).  They were fine and breeding before I boosted the GH in there, but they aren't breeding anymore.  This could be a short term thing, so I'm keeping an eye on them just out of curiosity.  The snails and platy fry are quite happy in there, however, so the GH boosting has so far achieved its goal.

Edit: I think the calcium needs of shrimp may be over-stated. I've never added calcium (crushed coral, cuttlebone, etc.) for my shrimp - it was always for crays or snails. Neocaridina bred just fine for me in my tap water which has relatively little calcium (4 dGH).

My tap water is 9KH/10GH or other way around...I can't remember.  Will shrimp like that? and PH is about 8-8.2.

Neocaridina should be able to tolerate it without trouble. I have 2 tanks at 11 dGH and 9 dKH - one with a ton of RCS and the other with a ton of Malawa. I haven't noticed any attrition in either of them since bumping the hardness up.

Your water is perfect for mystery snails.

My Sakura reds breed like crazy in my around 7ph tank...sometimes you won't see the baby shrimp for quite a while and then all of a sudden you start seeing them.

I also use cuttlebone, I just cut a bit off and let it float until it sinks or slowly goes away.

Hopefully you will start seeing some progress!

Thanks guys...and don't snails like all sorts of water???  

cichlid-gal wrote:Thanks guys...and don't snails like all sorts of water???  

My snails do, especially the snails I don't really want/need.   I started taking out all snails execpt my nerites.

cichlid-gal wrote:Thanks guys...and don't snails like all sorts of water???  

Larger snails like mystery and nerites can suffer shell erosion in water with lower hardness (like mine at 4 dGH / 5 dKH). I couldn't keep either alive long term before boosting my GH.

So no, some don't.

pbmax wrote:

cichlid-gal wrote:Thanks guys...and don't snails like all sorts of water???  

Larger snails like mystery and nerites can suffer shell erosion in water with lower hardness (like mine at 4 dGH / 5 dKH).  I couldn't keep either alive long term before boosting my GH.

So no, some don't.

Yeah I added some crushed shells to my canister filter and cuttlebone to help my snails and shrimp. My betta tanks snails survive but don't' thrive because it's just Seattle tap.