UPDATED+Plant Layout PokeSephiroth's 20 Gallon Walstad Tank

So, with Lamental Jester's topic about starting out a walstad tank, I wanted to follow suit, and give it a go!
I recently got a 20 Gallon Long tank in a trade, and I'm planning on using that for my Walstad tank.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



I have been mineralizing the soil for almost 2 weeks now...just a matter of time, before I can put it in the tank! Mmmm....mud...[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



What's next? Clay! Here's a question... I've noticed people using big chunks of clay in their soil, to the people who DO use clay, is it better if the clay chunks were big or small? Or does it really matter? I figured if they're smaller, then I could distribute the clay in the soil more evenly. I've rolled them into small balls, about the size of a green pea. I've seen people roll them into ping pong ball sized portions. So yes, does it matter?[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Hopefully I'll put the soil in by next week. I can't wait!

Did you handroll all those clay balls? lol
Hydroton is what I've seen people use for non-aquatic plants, mainly for holding water so they dont have to water as often. Not sure about aquarium use, maybe for anchoring or providing certain minerals in the water.

I love your plant grow room though, what is growing in the soil? Is it semi-aquatic, or just using the light in the room? Can't wait to get some of the frogbit and water lettuce though.

CrazedAce, I did indeed hand roll them. Hahahaha... Didn't take me too long to roll... less than an hour, while I was watching videos of of other Walstad tanks on youtube.

I'm growing catnip in two 2 liter bottles, and everything else is Holy Thai Basil (not to be confused with Thai Basil, or Spicy Basil) . . . . this stuff is hard to find in stores, even in Seattle...so, I figured I'd grow my own. Hahaha!

Update!

Couldn't help it. I ended up putting the soil and sand in the tank. I'm so bad! Pics to come.

PokeSephiroth wrote:Update!

Couldn't help it. I ended up putting the soil and sand in the tank. I'm so bad! Pics to come.

Makes me want to rip out all 200+ pounds of flourite in my tank and dirt it! Lamentals planted walstad looks awesome. Now your setting up a dirted tank. I swear Im developing a love/hate relationship with these forums...

theChad, you should! I'm thinking of doing the same thing with my 10 gallon planted tank the long start process is what really kills it because of the whole preparing of soil... but once you're over that hump, you're good to go!

More Updates!

So... I was planning on just capping the soil for tonight, but ended up putting in the plants and filling it up with water. . . for some odd reason, I feel very "meh" with what I did... aquascape isn't what I was picturing it to be, but hopefully when the plants start growing in, it'll become closer to what I had pictured in my head. We'll see.

Sand along the front. I didn't bother adding sand along the edges, since they can't be seen. Soil soil soil... then clay clay clay! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


This is basically all the hardscaping I had. Pretty sad. Took out the mopani wood from my 10 gallon, and placed it in here. Had some rocks... and that was that.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Aaaaand then the plants. Yeah. Water is cloudy, as I had expected. Hopefully that'll clear up in a couple days. Tomorrow, I will install the heater and filters (HoB and Canister) . . . but I won't turn on the filters just yet. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Couple things to note for myself:
More plants. MORE. MORE MORE MORE MORE.

Looks great start; it wouldn't hurt to add more root feeders.

You might try a canister with the outlet below the water line to minimize surface agitation and therefore maximize CO2 retention. A HOB will quickly off-gas your CO2.

What's your lighting plan?

I've got an eheim 2232 canister filter in there with a home made spray bar doohickey, and placed it just below the water surface, so that it moves water, w/o agitating the surface.

I also have an aquaclear 70, which I guess, will not be using for this tank then. lol... UNLESS...there's a way for me to block the outlet of the filter, and help dampen the flow of water, so that it doesn't disturb the water too much...? Possible?

Awesome whats the plan for plants? Will you do a dutch type of planted aquarium?

Patients is a virtue.... When I planted my 140 I was the same way about it being "ho hum". Its tough watching planted grow cichlids grow faster than plants.... Lol

I've converted all my T5HO lighting to 5000K and 6,400K. The tank has a bit more "yellow hugh" but the plants seem happier.

theChad wrote:I've converted all my T5HO lighting to 5000K and 6,400K. The tank has a bit more "yellow hugh" but the plants seem happier.

If you have room to get a cheap T8 fixture on there and stick an actinic bulb or a 50/50 in there that can greatly improve the color

PokeSephiroth wrote:
I also have an aquaclear 70, which I guess, will not be using for this tank then. lol... UNLESS...there's a way for me to block the outlet of the filter, and help dampen the flow of water, so that it doesn't disturb the water too much...? Possible?

Water agitation inside the filter itself will offgas CO2 as well (in the housing and the spill-way).

You can certainly use as many filters as you like, depending on how close to the Walstad method you want to get. Personally, I don't see the need for a second filter on a small tank like that - just means more noise and maintenance to me.

wow this is interesting...i need to do more research on it...what happened to the pics?.there they are....nicely done....

binbin, I had originally planned for it to just be a simple grow out tank for plants, trim/clip plants that need to be trimmed down, and toss them in this tank, for them to grow, for me to either sell, or trade with other goods. But I ended up wanting to do another tank (MTS is starting to hit me really bad! LOL. It's all your fault, Lars On! ALL YOUR FAULT! =P kidding). So now that I have it set up as a Walstad tank, I'm thinking of putting in small fish in there. I figured, the tank in the grow room would add a nice touch, and would give me something to watch, while I tend to my plants.

theChad, Patience is definitely a virtue, I've learned that through my 10gallon planted tank. It's fun watching the tank everyday though, not noticing the changes that happen, but when you compare "before and after" pictures, that's when you notice the significant changes! I might have to monkey around with the lighting, somewhere down the road. Once more money starts flowing in. We'll see.

Lamental Jester, neat, I'll have to see if I can do that with my setup as well. thanks!

pbmax, oh right. Lighting. Let's see.. I just have two "daylight" fluorescent bulbs on it. I'm not sure how many watts it has...I just got it as part of the trade, and came with the 20 gallon long tank. I have it set so that it's just hanging on some rope, which I can easily adjust the height of the string, if I want the lights closer to the tank, or further away.

Br, thanks! Definitely do more research! I've been doing lots of research and asking around for tips and tricks, and even though I've already started with my tank, I find myself still doing more and more research! Keep it up!

Update!

Plants are doing really well! Still testing for Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates... Both Ammonia and Nitrites are down to 0. HECK YEAH!!!

But for some odd reason, Nitrates are THROUGH THE ROOF!! So... still not quite there yet, still keeping up with water changes though! I can't wait to introduce fish into the tank! Oh, I s'pose I also need a cover for it. Went to Lowes to see their acrylic sheets, only to find out that they're way too flimsy. Bah.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nitrates and phosphates are the main component of fertilizers, so you might be experiencing elevated nitrates from the dirt. Can you test for phosphates? I have an API phosphate test kit I can let you borrow if you need it.

by phosphate, is that the same thing as pH? I'm so aloof when it comes to things like these. lol...

Phosphates are some of what plants crave, not PH. Lots of detergents have phosphates; the reason they're bad is they create algae blooms since algae craves them too.

And yes, the nitrates are from the soil most likely. Step up your water change frequency until they level out. If you picked the right soil you shouldn't have tons of phosphates. If you get tons of algae then you do

pbmax, eeeenteresting. Very very eeeeenteresting. Hmm... Lars On gave me some of her Miracle Grow Potting Mix (not soil) . . . I let it dry out a bit, sifted the CRAP out of it, because I didn't want any of that bark in my substrate, but I know people don't sift it. I'm just anal like that (Hey, Lamental Jester did it too! LOL)

But yeah... doing water changes, and nitrates are slowly going down. Still no fish, just plants. I've noticed though, one of the leaves on the Amazon sword you sold me is turning yellow ;( . . . dunno what that means, since I don't there are any deficiencies in my water/substrate.

Yes - that's the right stuff; Diana Walstad selected it for appropriate NPK content.

Look at it this way: if you were a plant and you were pulled out of the substrate, water, and lighting that made you happy and plopped down in some unknown tank somewhere, would you be 100% happy with life? That plant lived in a 10g with 36W of 6500K light over it and a 2.5" bed of turface on the bottom. These are very different conditions it's in now; you'll have to give it some time to acclimate. It will grow new leaves given time.

Had to set up a ghetto lookin' light fixture that has the following lights:

2 - 24" 17watt 6,500K Daylight fluorescent tubes
1 - 18" 15watt "grow light" tube
1 - 18" 15watt ????K fluorescent tube

Bringing that to a total of 64watts of lightage. Yep, just screwed on the light fixtures onto some thin wood board, and called it a day. I had actually placed "industrial strength" velcro, but after a day, it wasn't holding as well as I thought it would, so I had to bust out the hardware, and screwed them onto the wood board. Yeah. Those things won't budge anymore. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Industrial strength VELCRO? O_O

Lol, screws work hahahaha.

Your tank looks awesome good sir!
I'll get there in a week or so, btw, I just did a 20L Dirted tank today
With 9 panda cories and 5 black molly fry, and a bunch of rcs [:

Actually, I mispoke - that sword only had 26W of light over the 10g it was in. However, it was 26W in 2 round reflectors with the bulbs a couple of inches from the glass cover and about a half inch between the glass and the rims of the reflectors.

You have all that light mounted about a foot above the tank. From the looks of it I had more light in the water with 26W than you do with 64W. Light falls off very quickly with distance; it looks to me like a lot of that light is being wasted. I tried a similar hard-mounted light setup over my garage 20g with disappointing results - the light just fell off too quickly and my reflector was garbage.

pbmax, thankfully, the lights are hanging by string (which I need to change, eventually... I'd prefer rope, that's for sure) that can be adjusted by height. I don't normally keep it that high haha, I keep it just about 2 inches away from the water's surface, to ensure that the plants get maximum exposure to the light source. I only had it strung up high enough so I could get a shot of the lights But yes, I do plan on making a better looking light enclosure. LOL. I definitely need to find a way to get the light reflected downwards, rather than having it blasting light into places that don't need it... I'll have to MacGyver it up, one way or another. I have two paper clips, a half bent staple, horse hair, and one grain of sand. LOL

BillHN, well... you know what they say, if they don't find you attractive (implying that to myself, btw. hahaha!), they'll at least find you handy. LOL!! =P Yeah industrial strength velcro can be found in various home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes, etc) . . . btw, have you had those fish in there since you added soil to your tank? I'm still scared of putting any fish in mine, because of slightly high nitrate levels from my soil. I've been doing 50% water changes every other day, and my nitrates still hover around 10-30ppm =\ I don't think I want to put any fish in mine just yet. I do, however have some red ramshorn snails in there, and they seem to be doing fine, heck...there are some baby snails in there!

Update!
Picture time!!!

20 Gallon Long - Walstad tank is looking pretty jungly! Water Wisteria is taking off pretty well. Definitely really bushy. Got a whole bunch from CrazedAce, thanks!! Might have to trim em up at some point, they're almost covering up my poor Crypt hahaha.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Amazon Sword and Sunset Hygro are growing pretty well! Can't wait to see those thriving Amazon Sword, courtesy of pbmax, and Sunset Hygro from lars on, who originally received em from Lamental Jester. Thanks![You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Rotala Indica is growing in pretty well. Got it from Petco, and it finally started growing submerged leaves, woohoo!![You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Baby Tears, that I got from pbmax waaaaaay back when I made my first purchase of Red Cherry Shrimp from him. it started out as just one little stem that made its way into one of the baggies, and I didn't know what it was at the time, but figured I'd let it float around in the 10 gallon tank... and then it started to grow...and grow...and grow... and now, I've transferred it into the 20 gallon walstad tank, hoping that it will fill in nicely! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Bacopa Caroliniana (Lemon Bacopa), got it from lars on, during our fishy adventure when we drove up to Everett and Edmonds. Really neat plant that smells like Lemons/Limes when you pinch the leaves! Seems to be growing pretty well, if I do say so myself [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Dwarf Chain Swords/Micro Swords, got from petco, which is RARE to find, especially in the Bremerton Petco! Had to get it! Split the bunch into four groups, and placed two in here, and the other two in the 10 gallon tank. They seem to be growing, but I haven't noticed any new growth or runners yet...we'll see.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Dwarf Sag, these little dudes seem to be growing pretty well. Haven't noticed any melting on them (probably because I don't dose any liquid ferts... *knock on wood*) Got these from pbmax.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Got this little nifty lookin' UV sterilizer from lars on, we both didn't know what it was exactly for, but I placed it in my 20 gallon tank, and have it connected to my eheim 2232 canister filter, and it seems to be doing......something. Maybe killing algae things? I don't know. LOL. Had to make a little plastic doohicky that pushes the water out, rather than pushing the water downwards. Figured that, it would help with water flow if the water was flowing horizontally, rather than just flowing downwards. haha...[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Welps, that's about it for now, for my 20 gallon tank. I might trim some of the plants next weekend, I'd like to give the plants as much time to grow, before I do any trimming...IF I do any trimming. Heh. Till next time!

PokeSephiroth wrote:pbmax, thankfully, the lights are hanging by string (which I need to change, eventually... I'd prefer rope, that's for sure) that can be adjusted by height.

Ah; that was the bit of information I was missing - good!

PokeSephiroth wrote:Update!
Picture time!!!

Got this little nifty lookin' UV sterilizer from lars on, we both didn't know what it was exactly for, but I placed it in my 20 gallon tank, and have it connected to my eheim 2232 canister filter, and it seems to be doing......something. Maybe killing algae things? I don't know.

Great photos, but you need to add more ROOT PLANTS! The cornerstone of a walstad tank is a high density of root plants as opposed to stem plants. You have a ton of stem plants (Hygro, Rotala, Wisteria, Baby Tears, Bacopa) and relatively few root plants (swords, micro swords, sagittaria). Stem plants will grow fine in this setup, but the root feeders complete D. Walstad's micro ecosystem by processing waste out of the substrate and utilizing the dirt. Stem plants feed a lot from the water column as opposed to from their base roots.

UV sterilizers in a freshwater tank are typically used to combat green water (unicellular algae). I have one in my hot tub, interestingly enough. I'm not sure what good it does in there, but whatever.

And no worries - sagittaria doesn't melt, no matter what you're supplementing. It's so bad4ss it ignores liquid CO2 - don't confuse it with vallisneria. It'll take over your whole tank with time if you let it... so keep an eye on it.

PokeSephiroth wrote:pbmax, thankfully, the lights are hanging by string (which I need to change, eventually... I'd prefer rope, that's for sure) that can be adjusted by height. I don't normally keep it that high haha, I keep it just about 2 inches away from the water's surface, to ensure that the plants get maximum exposure to the light source. I only had it strung up high enough so I could get a shot of the lights But yes, I do plan on making a better looking light enclosure. LOL. I definitely need to find a way to get the light reflected downwards, rather than having it blasting light into places that don't need it... I'll have to MacGyver it up, one way or another. I have two paper clips, a half bent staple, horse hair, and one grain of sand. LOL

BillHN, well... you know what they say, if they don't find you attractive (implying that to myself, btw. hahaha!), they'll at least find you handy. LOL!! =P Yeah industrial strength velcro can be found in various home improvement stores (Home Depot, Lowes, etc) . . . btw, have you had those fish in there since you added soil to your tank? I'm still scared of putting any fish in mine, because of slightly high nitrate levels from my soil. I've been doing 50% water changes every other day, and my nitrates still hover around 10-30ppm =\ I don't think I want to put any fish in mine just yet. I do, however have some red ramshorn snails in there, and they seem to be doing fine, heck...there are some baby snails in there!

Angelo, the fishies are doing great, and I put them in after clearing out the dirt at least 15 times man.
LOL
And I had the dirt sit for 2 weeks in a bucket, and I sifted through it once a day with full water changes.
When I did my checks, it read 7.2 PH / 0 on nitrate and nitrite, KH (medium ppm, idk the specific, but it was looking good), GH same.
0 On Ammonia.

The panda cories (all 9 of them) and the 5 molly fry are happy, along with my rcs :]
Did I mention I'm ramshorn free?
I only have a couple of Mystery snail babies in there.

And I'm shoving more DH Grass in there tonight [:

pbmax, I'm planning on getting more crypts, and well... I don't know what else would make nice root feeding plants. Hmm... thanks for the info!

And yes, the UV sterilizer doesn't seem to be doing anything, I've never had to deal with green water *knock on wood* . . . but I guess it's good to just have it there, to prevent any algal blooms, maybe?

I just might have to order plants online, that's the one thing I've been trying to avoid for the longest time now, alas... it seems as though I have no choice. =P

BillHN, oh wow, yeah that seems like your fishies are doing well! Awesome! Pictures, must. see. pictures!

The petsmart tissue culture root plants (crypts, hair grass, micro swords), while spendy, definitely guarantee no hitchhikers. The only nasty hitchhiker I didn't want that I obtained via online plant buys was hydra. That was easy enough to fix.

Technically UV sterilizers damage the DNA of micro-organisms that pass through them and thus prevent them from reproducing. I may try one at some point before I try snazzier shrimp.

pbmax, I'd definitely buy them... if they were healthy. Although, a lot of their plants are ridden with Black Hair Algae, or have lots of holes in them. I don't mind the snails so much, heck...I'd ask for more snails from them, if I could (but it's illegal now these days) . . . .

I saw a couple crypts that I've been eyeing at, maybe I'll get those... maybe.

Well, you don't buy the brown ones. I've never seen algae on Petsmart's TC top fin brand plants (carboard container, plastic bag with plant + gel goo on the bottom). For a while they weren't getting new stuff in very often (and had some very sad looking packages that had obviously been on the shelves for weeks), but they've looked fantastic the last 3 times I've been to Petsmart in Lacey.

I've purchased 3 or 4 packages of brazilian micro swords from them and 3 packages of green crypt wendtii. All are thriving The crypts didn't even melt much after I planted them - that's a big plus. My DSM thread tank is all Petsmart TC plants.

Yeah, the petco and petsmart over here in Kitsap aren't....very..... good at keeping live plants. You could even ask Lars On. LOL I bet the stores over on that side of the Sound are better stocked the one ones over here.

You should try to make it out to the GSAS general auction. If it's at all like last year's, there will be tons of plants of all types, along with all of the other items. You do not have to be a member to attend the auction. Admission is free.

Betty, oh yes, I definitely plan on going to the auction!

is this the one that i gave you and i was afraid wouldnt hold water?

jrmakawoody, nope. I got this from a trade from a friend in Olympia. He basically gave me a 20 gallon long tank, for some of my plants. He also threw in a lot of extras

But yeah, the one you gave me, I gave to lars on, and I think she's going to use it as a grow out tank for plants. I only filled it up to about half way and felt kind iffy about filling it with more water. Hehehe

yeah, that thing is VERY iffy haha. It might be okay if she reseals the crap out of it!

It's... I dunno. The glass seems a lot thinner than an aquarium tank...almost felt like the glass was bowing even when I only filled it half way with water... hehe

well, i suppose she could have a "10 gallon long" by doing that haha. Your plants are looking good in that "walstad" setup. the Sunset Hygro is preeetttyyyy

LOL!! True I wonder if she filled it up yet. Hehehehe...

Trimmed the crap out of the 20 gall walstad tank, lots of water wisteria, and the vals are SUPER LONG, oh man so nice!

Everything else seems to be doing okay. I might do a diy co2 thing for it. I might not. Who knows. Hmmm... it's so much less bushier now though, thank goodness.

That huge Amazon Sword that pbmax soldme sprouted out, yet another runner and it's sticking out of the water, like the first one. Sweet!

CO2 do it do it do it do it!!!!

I don't think "Walstad" means what you think it means.

pbmax, walstad being as low maintenance as much as possible. Which means no co2, but if my dwarf hairgrass needs it... then it needs it. lol =P

A "Walstad tank" being an aquarium implementing the low-tech natural planted tank method as described by Diana Walstad in THIS book:

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Putting dirt in your tank doesn't make it a "Walstad". You'd have to change your thread title if you added CO2

IF... I do co2. IF. =P

Fair enough; I'll be watching this topic.

Turns out I've added CO2.

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