LFS Why is it???????????????????????

Went into a LFS (local fish store) today (will keep it to myself for now). Asked the manager if he would be interested in purchasing some of my angles and before I could get the sentence out of my mouth. I was told a flat "NO!!!" Why is that? LFS could save a bundle and even might be able to sell more fish and make a better profit if they did buy from local breeders. Save them a small fortune in shipping alone. They are selling angels at this store for $8.00 piece Im not asking to sell them at that price, but man he did not even want to see them. I just don't get it. Can some one explain this to me. Because I have about 2000 babies that I have all in different stages and would hate to keep investing my time and effort if I cant sell them?

I know for a fact that Conway Tropical is about the only one that will buy local breeder fish, Talk to Cory or Jim.

The reason most fish stores dont buy from local breeders is lact of quarantine tanks, space and time to quarantine the fish. Also in order for them to buy your fish for $1 to $3 a fish they would have to charge more in order for you to want to keep breeding for profit.

Addictedtofish wrote:I know for a fact that Conway Tropical is about the only one that will buy local breeder fish.

Not true.

But definitely thanks to Jim and Cory and all of the other LFS owners that do support local breeders!!

Care to explain, "NOT TRUE"? This was told to me by Cory and Clark.

I have a relationship with 2 other LFS in the area, so that simply isn't true.

Your speaking of fish stores down south, correct? I was thinking of adding to that post about building a relationship, Ive noticed after talking to Clark and Jesse and doing some business with them they said they would buy some of my new fish im breeding. I know Jones & Co. and Bridges wont buy from local breeders. I think it all depends on how well you get to know the people at the stores and how there actually ran. I was only repeating what was told to me when I asked the same question as Angelman.

I was simply stating that Conway isn't the only LFS that guys from local breeders. Yes, it is the only one that I'm aware of north of the city that does - given my location it's easier for me to do business with the downtown LFS.

Your addition is very true; it's all about the relationship. If you want to be "in business" with them you have to treat it like business and earn the right to ask them to do business with you.

Angelman - Cory posted a top-notch article on breeding for business on his blog and linked it here a few months ago. I'd suggest reading it for a very real-world perspective on breeding for business vs. breeding for fun.

You can also see that post on his website. www.tankgeek.com

I can answer that it was not Cory at all


but the guy that we talked to sure seemed to make us feel we were wasting his time even though the angels that they had in their tanks were small and 90% of the time there is something wrong with them

Angelman you are in serious trouble. 2-3 years ago I had a lot of angels and it was hard to get $1-2 for a half dollar angel fish. After this experience I decided I won't keep angels anymore.
Some fish stores will give you store credit for fish or plants at a 1/3 rate. I received a different answer from a well known LFS in Everett: they said they can't take the fish for store credit but they can accept donations.

The simple fact is im not breeding for a profit, but for my own enjoyment. I enjoy it but does not mean that I want to waist my time breeding them to flush them by the hundreds.. but it would sure be nice to get something food, water treatment, just something for my time. Guess there aquabid, craigslist and even Ebay. @flo77 were are on the same page here...

we've spoke before friend and shared angel stories,selling online worked very well for me .learning to ship is very important .

Ive just got to add that there wasn't one store in the north end that i didn't sell to ,or wouldn't take my fish i sold to Conway ,little amazon pet pure Jones mid way ,ect...as Larry said it is a relationship type of thing .most shop owners are able to tell the people that are good in the hobby from the know it all ding dongs that have had fish in a bowl for 6 months and give grand advice .

many of the times that people are turned away from selling the hobbyist raised fish is because some owners try to get all of their fish from just one or 2 suppliers ,there is a fear of that seller finding out that others are crowding in on them and taking the business away,that creates the possibility of not being treated as well over all .

there's also the seasonal factors of the fish types,been a real hard thing for me to learn this past year,i do recall sharing with you about building huge stocks of angels all summer long and selling like mad in the fall.

i would not give up if i were you ,i can share with you how to ship angels so the doa is minimal ,i enjoy seeing you and the wife from time to time and would be glad to help.....no i don't need angels @ this time sorry .

its hard to compete with the 3rd world countries in this economy ,there are many fish farms selling cheap angels .

ps,the blue angels in the bridges display tank are from me

dont quit .go on a field trip and give out samples of 5 to 10 angels with a phone number ,it could take a while to get a call back or even have the shops accept the samples,


try not to forget to have fun

Great advice, thx Jeff been waiting for you to chime in.

not advice ,experience,in a friendly way

Thanks for the word of encoragement trans. I'm new to the area but I am well known in the angel world. Oh yah amen on your pm!

Most of the time, I end up paying more and definitely putting in more work to buy a local fish breeder's fish than if I buy from a wholesaler.

Wholesalers don't reschedule. There isn't a oops, I forgot I had to do this instead of shipping fish. Also scheduling fish with a local breeder is a pain. We want fish early morning ie before noon on a week day. Most people have to work.

LFS don't have time to acclimate fish etc after 2pm. When kids get out of school, people are out and about running errands, buying fish etc. Weekends are always slammed, so no fish deliveries on the weekend for sure.

Then you have the fact that all wholesalers also have a 24 hour death policy. If a fish dies, you're credited for it. Most breeders do not like this policy.

It's also a lot easier for me to call up my wholesaler and order 18 angels, 40 guppies, 24 yellow labs, 6 flowerhorns, 2 stingray, 25 platies etc. They all arrive on the same day, and I am ready.

If I buy from local breeders, likely I have to call 6 different people and schedule 6 different times to get those same fish in. This leads to a huge pain in the ass. Especially if the store has lots of employees. You have to schedule extra people to work when fish are coming in etc.

It is easier to just have a store tell people that they don't buy fish. This is because every day at least 3 people ask you if you buy fish. People want to sell off their problem fish back to you, or 10 guppies at a time etc. 1 out of every 50 people will actually be serious about breeding and supplying a store. You need to show them you're serious.

If you have a local store you want to sell too but they don't want to buy. Give 12 angels. A suggested retail price. Then your phone number. They will call you if they sell. It could be anything, if it's in my store and I sell out of it fast. I will call up and order more. Remember pet stores are there to make money. They'd be dumb not to buy from someone who is making them money.

Don't try to beat wholesale prices. You won't. Theres always a guy doing what you want to do cheaper. Be it using a pond, free heating, etc. Instead you need to offer something else. Is it quality? Or perhaps you make it easier for the buyer. Or perhaps people only want your strain of fish etc.

Now we do make an effort to buy from hobbyists at Conway Tropical Fish. This helps out the hobby in general. However we usually pay more than wholesale on fish due to fish being brought in smaller/ making it worth someone's time. Show up to my store with some DD black angels that are healthy and I'll buy them from you. I can't currently find nice blacks.

Great feedback Cory!

Good info here!

I was thinking about breeding ebjd in the next few months. It'll take me quite a long time to set up a nice genetic/healthy pair (up to 2 years depending on what I can have shipped up from friends in So Cal), and I'm doing this just for my own experience. I was thinking I'd just feed the babies to my monster fish and keep the nice ebjd spawn in a show tank just for them.

What a great thread. Thank you to all who contributed to it. The insite of the 2 dealers was indeed priceless. That's why I love this forum!

Sink wrote:Good info here!

I was thinking about breeding ebjd in the next few months. It'll take me quite a long time to set up a nice genetic/healthy pair (up to 2 years depending on what I can have shipped up from friends in So Cal), and I'm doing this just for my own experience. I was thinking I'd just feed the babies to my monster fish and keep the nice ebjd spawn in a show tank just for them.

I think a good rule of thumb(I think) is this: if you want to breed a fish and be sucsessful. Breed something that already retails for $15-$20 minimum. That way, when you come in trying to sell your babies for $5 per, these LFS owners will be happy to see you!

Just my .02c

If you talk to Cory at Conway tropical and im sure its the case at most fish stores, your more colorful cheap fish like the guppy is the biggest seller. You have to keep in mind most people that walk into a fish store are not wanting to pay $15 to $20 per fish unless there a breeder themselves or wanting to setup a show tank. Ive been through this already with some fish ive bred, grew out the fish for 3+ months just to find out either some were to small still and the others were ones that were slow movers and so I lost money in the long run breeding them.

Cory wrote: Show up to my store with some DD black angels that are healthy and I'll buy them from you. I can't currently find nice blacks.

Im will take you up on that when my DD Angles get a bit bigger. Should be in a couple weeks.

I agree with Adonijah, in my fish room if it doesnt cost 20$ retail i dont breed it. Angels I breed are the only exception. The angels are usually given away as bonus to buying my expensive taeniatus or apistos. My extras are usually feeders for my pikes. It took me years to establish my relationship with the shops that buy from me. Buy from them and wait for them to ask you for babies. If you make a shop special order you $500 of apistos, taeniatus, or discus they will ask if you have babies...promise. If you go into a shop for the first time, dont try to impress them. Give em samples and your number or email. That has been what works for me.
lilydog

problem with cheap fish (especially livebarers) is the wholesale price is so cheap you cant beat it once you pay for your food and water and electricity...time and gas driving aside. African northwest wholesales platies and some guppies as cheap as 10-15 cents (full grown fish) if you buy more than 25. You cannot compeat with outdoor ponds and free heat...

Lilydog wrote:problem with cheap fish (especially livebarers) is the wholesale price is so cheap you cant beat it once you pay for your food and water and electricity...time and gas driving aside. African northwest wholesales platies and some guppies as cheap as 10-15 cents (full grown fish) if you buy more than 25. You cannot compeat with outdoor ponds and free heat...

This is incorrect info. I cannot quote the actual price of them because I work for a store. However I will say that I sure pay a lot more than 10-15 cents each from ANW.

In fact I often buy Platies, Swordtails, Guppies, Endlers, Mollies from customers for 50 cents to $1 each. Each month I buy 500-1000 livebearers from local breeders.

Wow, that's an amazing amount of livestock moving per month. Especially considering that's just 1 retailer, even at the lower cost end of the spectrum. It makes me curious what the total amount of livestock sold per month would be for the area.

You have to remember, the majority of people in this hobby will never visit a forum. The largest tank they'll ever dream of owning will be a 55 gallon etc.

Selling 20+ dollar fish is nice for a store. But what keeps the doors open is our average customers. These are people who buy a few community fish every week. A large portion of our customers are families who are buying fish for their children's tanks every week or so.

I easily sell 100 to 1 fish under $5 to fish over $20. That's where the numbers come in. If you have an outlet for your high end fish that can keep up with your breeding, then you'll make tons of money. I have yet to find any fish that I couldn't breed fast enough to flood out an entire state.

Even with guppies, with 900 gallons of water you should be producing 3000 sellable guppies a month. That'll supply about 10 LFS a month. However, 10 LFS usually dont want all the same supply of a fish. Variety is what keeps customers happy. I've found that I personally and other breeders I know have done best with a varied stock offering. Say you breed guppies, dicus, kribensis corydoras, and bristlenose plecos. That'll fill alot of water in your house and still offer quite a bit to a fish store