Discus stress - 'dark.'

So, I've been reading about the stress signs of discus; what kind of darkness does a discus show if I'll or stressed? Like darker colour of it's original colour or a blacken?

I learned Saturday that blackened fins means the fish is not doing well.

Blackened discus= big trouble. It looks like is a disease caused by a virus which weaken the imune system. The fish will fight against the virus but must be helped against secondary bacterial infections with antibiotics. If that's your case you may lost some fish. Later I'll describe my experience with that disease. You can find pictures online with discus afected by this disease.

We were at Sierra in Renton Saturday and their Discus tank had like 4 of them that were dying and all their fins were black and the fish were basically slumped on the gravel against the glass and ornaments. They looked sad.

Wow.
Now that is bad. I was worried my new discus are too stressed, but it ain't anywhere near that kind of suffering.

flo77 wrote:Blackened discus= big trouble.

That kinda made me chuckle..because all I thought about was "Blackened Discus with lemon and butter" lol..like that dude on MFK who ate his Midas when it died.

The fish which survive to this disease gets imunity but can spread the virus.
Last december I had 6 happy discus in my 75 gal tank and I bought 2 other from a local breeder(because bobby is so much involved on this forum I have too mention that IS NOT BOBBY). The fish were absoluty gorgeous but it looks like they spread the virus in my tank. After 2-3 days all the other discus start to blacken, the 2 new discus were OK. I start to treat all tank with Eritromicin, half dose because I had Cardinal Tetra in that tank. I've lost 3 discus but I saved other 3. The 2 new discus were unafected by the virus.
I can't say nothing about the fish at Sierra because I didn't see them, but anybody can have their own conclusions.
Looking forward to hear more opinions from the discus people on this forum.
Late edit after saw protcl's posting: Protcl please don't jump to any conclusion before positevely identify your fish problem. They maybe only stressed...Compare your fish with the pictures available online.

Spyral wrote:

flo77 wrote:Blackened discus= big trouble.

That kinda made me chuckle..because all I thought about was "Blackened Discus with lemon and butter" lol..like that dude on MFK who ate his Midas when it died.

wonder how it tasted.

Probably, burnt discus sounds even funnier.

balck fins are fine..... black stripes fine..... you just gotta worry that they are too stressed if they completly turn very very dark... all the body.

Really, Sand, cuz all the dying ones at Sierra (and there were quite a few) had black fins. The healthy ones were normal.

A picture worth a thousand of words. If you see a sick discus(blacken) you will have no doubt.

spyral - its called "dirty" or "peppering" when they have black spots on the body or dark fins.... actually these fish are allot easier to breed cause they dont have a problem secreting that mucus food for there young... the really clean discus are usually your grade A pigeon, or marboro.... and they typically cant raise there own fry but you have to have suiter parents for there young.

Every one of my discus have dark fins.... not willing to pay 80+ dollars for grade A clean fish that will give me trouble with breeding later.

so the blackened ones laying on the bottom were just sleeping?

lol.... if there body was blackened, Im assuming they were near death.... if it was just there fins that were dark, then most likely sleeping? lol

Well, my discuses are not blacken in any way, I guess still not comfortable yet.
There was a cucumber floating around, I grabbe it with my 20" tweezers and then all 3 if them formed a defensive barrier!!!
Kinda funny and interesting.

Oh well...

Hey sandnuka: what do you feed your discuses?

they are currently on a frozen bloodworm only diet.... to kinda get the spawning.... they love em.

How long did it take them to get comfortable?
Mine still tries to avoid me.

probably a month or longer of hand feeding (well hand in the tank with bloodworms) but they didnt start comin to my hand until itleast a month or so..... they are a really skittish fish, the more you just sit in front of the tank and watch them... the faster they get used to you... if you have to net one, or move around decor in the tank, starts all over.

we need to see some pictures!

sandnuka wrote:probably a month or longer of hand feeding (well hand in the tank with bloodworms) but they didnt start comin to my hand until itleast a month or so..... they are a really skittish fish, the more you just sit in front of the tank and watch them... the faster they get used to you... if you have to net one, or move around decor in the tank, starts all over.

we need to see some pictures!

i guess, its gonna be a long ride...oh yea, ill post them!

just saw one the discus laying on its side...too sleep?
i thought it was dead!, until i tried to net it and then BAM!, across the tank it went.

weird.

Never seen them lay on there side? Keep an eye on it...... what temp you keep the tank at? Just to give ya a heads up, discus are super succeptable to getting hexima.... They have a really week immunity.... anyway, hexima dies at 85 degrees.... I always kept my tank above that around 86 -87... this way they stay super healthy.

i keep my tank at 82.
ill bump up the temp to 85; thanks for the heads up!

I keep everyone of my tanks at 82.... but discus have to have allot higher.... plus you will see them happier and out more!

DIscus, although found in the wild, are now hybrids due to all the crossing to make the gorgeous colors that are available.... sucky part is then they have to have a little extra care cause there mutants... (thats why Im not a fan of hybrids) but couldnt resist the discus.

Discus like alot of fish will drop to the bottom and sleep, discus like to lean against each other or against decor. If you dont have any nocturnal fish in the tank you will witness alot of this behavior and laying on there side ive seen them do this when there tank temp is on the cold side of what they like, almost like hybernating.

ok, so i just bumped up the temp. trying to get around 85.
found the discus laying on the driftwood, again..haha.

I would bump it up to 86 to 88 that way no diseases can live in the water, not even ich. 85 is the border temp for most diseases.

i would, but worried about the other inhabitants.

what else is in the tank? I generally kept my tank at 86 to 87, for a week I had it at 90 to kill ich. I had cardinals,neons, cory cats, pleco and for a few months a black ghost knife. The higher temp also speeds up there metabolism.

My community discus planted tank I kept at 85 - 86 cause there were rams in there and apistos.... that way everyone was happy.... 88 is too high for most fish, they get super sluggish and boring.

also rams and others need some bacterias to help digest there food that die at higher temps.... so as a nice comprimise I always kept it right at the 85 level.

silver arowana, cuvier birchir, a few BN pleco's and a purple spotted gudgeon.

protocl wrote:silver arowana, cuvier birchir, a few BN pleco's and a purple spotted gudgeon.

Sounds like a really cool lookin mix! would love to see some pictures of the group together!

sandnuka wrote:

protocl wrote:silver arowana, cuvier birchir, a few BN pleco's and a purple spotted gudgeon.

Sounds like a really cool lookin mix! would love to see some pictures of the group together!

will do!

protocl wrote:ok, so i just bumped up the temp. trying to get around 85.
found the discus laying on the driftwood, again..haha.

The concentration of disolved oxigen in water decreases when water temperature increases. Aditional aeration may prevent finding discus laying on the side(at least for me worked).

Thats good advice flo I totally forgot about that, When I had discus I had a couple of air stones going day and night in each back corner.

flo77 wrote:

protocl wrote:ok, so i just bumped up the temp. trying to get around 85.
found the discus laying on the driftwood, again..haha.

The concentration of disolved oxigen in water decreases when water temperature increases. Aditional aeration may prevent finding discus laying on the side(at least for me worked).

i have a rena xp4, pushing water with a spray bar; thus agitating the surface at all times. if this approach is not supplying enough water to air mix, ill add an airstone.

Protocl, it's my 2 cents opinion. I don't know your bioload and I can't say if your filtration is enough or not. Anyway aditional air stone can't hurt. Remember, if you have big fish they need more air. Also they eat and poo a lot, that means in your filter are a lot of beneficial bacteria which require a lot of oxigen. Increasing water temperature may result in a water depleted of oxygen. For some reason discus don't like that. In my tank they are the first fish to react on this. I had discus almost dead and after I put an airstone they came to life. My water temp is 87-88.

flo77 wrote:Protocl, it's my 2 cents opinion. I don't know your bioload and I can't say if your filtration is enough or not. Anyway aditional air stone can't hurt. Remember, if you have big fish they need more air. Also they eat and poo a lot, that means in your filter are a lot of beneficial bacteria which require a lot of oxigen. Increasing water temperature may result in a water depleted of oxygen. For some reason discus don't like that. In my tank they are the first fish to react on this. I had discus almost dead and after I put an airstone they came to life. My water temp is 87-88.

as for temp, yes...i should have it at 85 and up, just im worried for the other occupants. as for diseases and such, i cannot say and will not say i will not have a affected fish, but i just dont want the other occupants to actually seem sluggish and all.

as for my 180G filtration: rena xp4 and a fluval fx5.
ill go out and get a good air pump and see how it from there.

Protocl it's only you the one who decides how much the temperature in your tank should be. I only tried to explain why your discus lay on side when you increase the temperature and why extra aeration is necessary in that case.

flo77 wrote:Protocl it's only you the one who decides how much the temperature in your tank should be. I only tried to explain why your discus lay on side when you increase the temperature and why extra aeration is necessary in that case.

the temp is at 84.6.
Everyone seem fine. That discus is mire active, but I think the other 2 paired off....at 3"? That young?

they can start pairing an spawning at 9months... some discus grow slowly, so size isnt really how you tell if they are pairing.... If the pair is beating on the others, and kinda just hanging out alone in there own corner, then they definetly paired, might want to consider moving them to a 29gal, or 20gal tall.

I would bring up the temp just 1 more degree... shouldnt harm anything, but I know you want it just above 85 degrees to kill most hexima.