Lotsa eggs!

So a couple weeks back I saw a really nice lookin' pair of marble convicts, thought I would toss them in a tank, see what there offspring look like.... and have some live food for some of my carnivore fish.... They are in a planted tank, and pretty much demolished all my stuff in the tank

Anyway, I went downstairs today and saw a bunch (60+) eggs on a clay plate.... was semi-excited, then i looked at the 10gal tank below it and to my surprise i saw a bunch of German blue ram eggs... and they were already lookin ready to hatch!!! The parents havent eaten the eggs, and they arent white yet (previous exp. with stupid ram eggs)... so looks like I will have a bunch of babies soon!

Finally, I need to get rid of some of my microworms, and brine shrimp eggs. What a good end to a great fish week! got my new fish from the group order, and some fish from betty.... This definetly was a great week for my hobby!

Nice job Joe!!!

Awesome news dude
all your hard work finally pay off

Congrats Joe! Know you've been waiting for the GBR fry for a while now...

Excellent work.

Thanks guys.... Really appreciate it.... seriuosly those GBR's where really making me crazy! I was ready to pull them and call it quits.... now the eggs are bouncin around a lil'.... think they are hatching... I feel like da' fish masta' now! lol

I think the male gave up on the female... cause now he guards the eggs 24 hours a day.... before it was always the female that ate the eggs on her watch.... The male has had it, he kicked her out! lol (thats the only thing I didnt try, just pulling the female...)

Now my last fish that has yet to give me a successful spawn is the discus.... I think they are my kryptonite fish! The tropheus were, but now I got them spawning, then the GBR, and finally got a successful batch it looks like.... but now the last guys... friggin discus! lol I got a new spawning clay cone in the male today... maybe that will work cause they didnt like the pot????

Brings me to a question... why convicts are such good parents off the bat??? i saw a couple white eggs today, went down 30 mins later, they were gone... they havent eaten any other eggs.... they share guarding responsibilities.... why fish like GBR suck as parents??? and takes soooo many times for them to get it right?? wtf? anyone have a logical explanation for that?

the convicts dont wanna go back to jail...

On the discus give them a 50-75% water change next time a storm rolls in, cooler softer water with a lower PH. Basically you need to make 'rainy season' in their tank.
Congrats on the rams!

Congrats on the ram spawn! I used to have Bolivians, but they were all male so I never had any little ones. Exciting stuff!

Alright! my little rams are wigglin! so I tried to be clever and put them in a breeding net... not smart! I lost a bunch of them... but what was super cool, mom and dad worked together collectin the dropped fish and spit them back in there original spot.... I have allot less than I thought too... only about 10... and they are so tiny, like grains of sand... gonna be fun to try and feed them, especially since I cant get them in a place of there own.... and the parents attack the heck out of me when i put my hand in.

was gonna poste pictures, but they are sooooo small you cant see anything in the pictures.... we will have to wait a week.... but will keep everyone updated....

Fern - Tried it... I really think the pair I have only spawn like once a year.... I spoke with a breeder, and he said every once in awhile he gets a pair that rarely ever produces for him.... so I think thats what I got goin on... when my other ones become breedin age and pair off, hopefully I will get a more productive couple.

The easiest way I've found to feed those tiniest of fry that are kept in/near caves is by mixing their food with a bit of water and squirting it down to them with a syringe or a turkey baster, being careful not to overfeed them.

I was using a syringe for little kids medicine... you know the one I am talkin about??? anyway, its not tall at all.... maybe only 3" .... so its really hard to get down to the cave..... I gotta maybe use some air tubing to attach it to the end of the syringe so it gets longer.... WOW, I just thought of that, Im gonna go try it now! lol, thanks sandnuka! (im such a dork)

Convicts are one of the all time best parents, they also can have huge spawns in the 300 egg range. I would venture a guess that because a pair of convicts can take on an oscar with their very strong little beak like mouths they have every right to evolve to be the parents that never abandon their post. Rams perhaps being a bit more dainty are simply more likely to turn and run, or freak out and eat. It's just a loose hypothesis.

I have never had rams spawn, but with most cichlids crushed flake or algae is my preference for the early days. If they still have round egg like tummies you really don't need to feed them yet. I usually start feeding a bit of crushed veggie flake or better yet spirulina powder is the best first food for many fry. Spirulina has natural antibiotics and tons of vitamins and protein, for many fish in the wild algae is their first food. With Central americans I like to have tanks with algae on the walls. I have great success rates this way since they figure it out pretty quickly.

me - I like the hypothesis.... makes sence..... And I dont know if i can crush the flake food smaller than freshly hatched bbs.... I think thoughs look too big for them... lol.... I have mircoworms, but its really hard to get them down to them.... I was reading that hard boiled egg yoke crushed into powder works too..... I did buy some guppy fry food powder, hope that works... and I got lots of alge, its a planted tank with soil substrate... all sorts of good natural crap growin in there. I havent started feedin yet.... I think they've only been hatched for like 2 days at most. Think I am suppost to wait until there free swimming.

I love watching them though, makes it all worth it..... the way the parents are acting, so cool.... I feel pretty proud about the GBR, not so much about the convicts, that was too simple. Took all the challenge away from the game. lol

lol, yeah convicts are the rabbits of the cichlid world. Gotta love their parenting though. I've seen them keep a whole community of much larger cichlids in the tank in a corner.

Definitely right about waiting for free swimming. After free swimming most fry will start to wither with no food after 3 days, but sounds like your tank will have plenty of bits for them to find. Overfeeding kills more fry than underfeeding, so just breathe and take it easy when you get there. Most important is to watch their size and behavior. I'm sure that father must be very colorful right now with some awesome fin action.

Enjoy it

Have you watched to see if the parents are chewing up flake and spitting it to the fry?
I have seen my sp44's, moorii, lelupis, brichardi all do that.

fern, Really! thats super cool.... I have yet to see that! although ive just raised mouthbrooders in the past.... these are my first non-mouthbrooding species...

To be honest, I like mouthbrooders way better! These tiny lil' things seem so fragile, wish they had more protection! But, I will keep an eye out after feedin today and see if i notice the parents doin that. thanks for the heads up.

Fern - Tried it... I really think the pair I have only spawn like once a year.... I spoke with a breeder, and he said every once in awhile he gets a pair that rarely ever produces for him.... so I think thats what I got goin on... when my other ones become breedin age and pair off, hopefully I will get a more productive couple.[/quote]

Joe are you talking about your discus pair? If so when I had them they where spawning all the time, even twice a week.

I've had red jewels chew and spit flake for their fry too. Good parents will feed their fry for the first day or 3.
If the tank is well established and you have some algae and what not in there the fry will have something to graze on between feedings.

Fern wrote:I've had red jewels chew and spit flake for their fry too. Good parents will feed their fry for the first day or 3.
If the tank is well established and you have some algae and what not in there the fry will have something to graze on between feedings.

I've seen this with most CA cichlids as well. They will even pick the fry up in their mouth usually just 1 - 3 at a time and move them about the tank on occassion. It's this behavior that led to mouth brooding in Africa. Frontosa are a good example of a fish that has not been a mouth brooder too long, and this is why they can be so dang hard to breed. Convicts seem to use their mouth more than allot of CA cichlids. I've even seen a female spit half a dozen fry at a time into a little trench she dug. Also saw that same female dig a canal half way accross a 55 gallon and then escort her fry across the tank through it for their first excursion through the community tank. Very cool to see.

Addictedtofish wrote: Joe are you talking about your discus pair? If so when I had them they where spawning all the time, even twice a week.

TWICE A WEEK!! ive never heard of discus spawning twice a month let alone twice a week! Even convcits susposidly breed like rabbits and never spawn more than 1 time a week...... seriously!! wow!!!

Anyway, yeah it is my discus.... I talked to bobby got my water parameters exactly like his... (5.5PH, really soft water, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite)... I do water changes 3 - 4 x weekly up to 50% (cause its a bare bottom tank and I have too)..... Also tried them in a planted tank, with 6.2PH, soft water, 20ppm nitrate, 0 nitrite and still cant get them to lay eggs! Now, they are defineltly pairing..... they guard an area, get super aggressive towards all the others, but have yet to drop eggs for me?? so there in there own tank now..... even got a spawning clay cone, (same ones bobby uses).... and im just waiting.... every discus breeder (3 of 'em) that I know came over, and all told me I was doing everything text book, so it just must be the pair???? Maybe, cause they were raised in your 8+ PH, and super hard water, they grown accustomed to it??? lol, maybe I should drop them in a rift lake tank and see what happens... lol... tried everything else. lol

well, some of my newer guys are startin to pair, and they have always been in my low ph super soft water, so hopefully I will get them going..... I like there colors much better anyway. Oh yeah, how are the brichardi babes doin? Heard you got vinces breeders... good steal, thoughs guys produced for him like crazy. He still doesnt have any lufubu for me though

Raise the PH slowly if you go that route or you may kill them.

Hope they perform for you man. Sometimes late bloomers can be amazing breeders in time. Just like me ! ha ha ha

There color absolutly glows, and they seem so happy, I wouldnt put them in higher PH.... I was just being a dork. back on subject,

All my eggs are hatched! and i did witness the GBR's move all the fry from one clay pot to another in there mouth... very cool, I didnt think of them as good parents, be they are being awesome. The convict babies hatched today too... they were all nicely placed on top of a clay plate, and then i couldnt find any!! freaked me out, but I noticed they are all on the floor under the clay plate now.... I dont know if the parents pushed them off the edge on one side, or if they all wiggled there way off on that side... but they all seem ok. I will start tryin to get video in a couple days and post to this thread. So stay tuned!

Congrats bro!

thanks brother mikey... you always make me feel like im doing a good job.... those responses is the reason why I love this place!

Very cool, glad your got to see them moving their fry. Cichlids are amazing!

ok, I went down stairs and was watching the GBR fry and they are free swimming!!!! They are also takin down my freshley hatched bbs... Im so excited, well when i was watching with my face plastered on the tank, the mom got all nervous and starting eatin the free swimmers!! I quickly grabbed a net and took her out and placed her in the community tank.... So we will see how good dad raises these babes by himself for now.

Good move, this does happen sometimes.

Ok, I just poted a poll if I should remove the dad.... you guys check it out! he is doin the same thing mom was....

Are you sure he isn't just holding them and spitting them later? If not, definitely pull him, they will do fine without him if you can keep it clean and keep them fed.

My vote would be, pull him. They're free swimming. If there are no predators for him to protect them from, PULL HIM!

he definetly gobbled a couple up "me".... 100% sure.... and thanks for the vote momsfishn, I am most likely pullin him tomorrow.

PULL.

Well..... I just pulled daddio.... after goin down to check on them and seeing 2/3 of the fry gone!! The lil' turd ate soooo many eggs... I have barely 15 out of 50+ left.

sandnuka wrote:Well..... I just pulled daddio.... after goin down to check on them and seeing 2/3 of the fry gone!! The lil' turd ate soooo many eggs... I have barely 15 out of 50+ left.

wow...thats bad.
now you can rename him - Daddious-turdious.

Next spawn should be better, they just need practice. If you put them in the same tank together keep a watchful eye, as they can take out their dispointment with losing their brood on eachother, and I have even had fatalities this way. I bet your next spawn will be very soon after a little cool off time, and I bet you will get way more eggs!

Good luck with the 15 you have, not a complete loss man !

Im actually fixin up there 20gal... for now they are in a community 55gal so they can get some room from eachother... i will give them a week there then put them in the 20gal.

I will work pretty hard on the 15 I got left! they got the 10gal to themself... wish it wasnt planted with gravel, it would be easier to see them in a bare bottom tank.

You can do this. If I can, you surely can. Last Year just as an experiment, I syphoned convict eggs off the castle mom stuck them on, into a bucket, dumped them into a 10 gal and watched them begin to first free swim in a couple days. They were so small, I really didnt know how many I had. They started on first bites, 4 times a day. Buy a mo. old they were eating cichlid attack. When I netted them out at 2 months and gave them away there was 40 of them. I couldn't believe it. I not suggesting you feed what I fed, or even that it would be that easy with rams. After all they were convicts. Just trying to go you some encouragement. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!!!!

Also when eggs are still stuck to the surface of the spawn site you can remove the object and place an airstone under it, I have had great success rates this way. Though it's not the same as watching the parents do their thing.